# Hold onto your butts - we're goin' to war! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 27, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240 "2002-12-27T22:04:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/1 "2002-12-27T22:04:28Z")
[25,000 U.S. troops headed to gulf](http://www.msnbc.com/news/852248.asp?0cv=CA01) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, Dec. 27 — Approximately 25,000 U.S. troops have been ordered to the Persian Gulf region starting in early January, military officials told NBC News on Friday, and the Navy has been ordered to prepare amphibious assault groups and aircraft carriers for possible action in the gulf, the latest wave in a deployment for a potential conflict with Iraq, defense officials said. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/2 "2002-12-27T22:11:20Z")
I thought you were going to be talking about the [violation of the DMZ in Korea](http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/12/27/nkorea.dmz/index.html). ---
**Author:** ![Splanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@Splanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splanky)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/3 "2002-12-27T22:17:04Z")
I’m wet just thinking of it. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/4 "2002-12-27T22:33:05Z")
Yeah, some of us have known this for a while. My brother is going to Afghanistan pretty soon. It’s a drag, but… ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/5 "2002-12-28T00:03:47Z")
27,000? Is that a lot? ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/6 "2002-12-28T00:06:55Z")
And so it begins. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/7 "2002-12-28T01:11:53Z")
27,000 ain’t much. There’ll be an order of magnitude more before things get heavy. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/8 "2002-12-28T01:42:13Z")
_sigh_ This is SO wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/9 "2002-12-28T02:21:19Z")
I am curious as to how this will pan out. Will North Korea launch an offensive once we engage Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![BrentLumkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BrentLumkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrentLumkin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/10 "2002-12-28T02:23:33Z")
Hmmm, so CAN we fight two ground wars on TWO different fronts? This could be WWIII officially begining, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/11 "2002-12-28T02:38:52Z")
Will this war be called World War III? Or some hokey \*Operation Noble Eagle \*. I vote for: \*\*Operation Bend Over, Saddam. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![BrentLumkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@BrentLumkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrentLumkin)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/12 "2002-12-28T02:39:39Z")
Operation: We’ve had e’fucking’nough. ---
**Author:** ![happyheathen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@happyheathen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/happyheathen)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/13 "2002-12-28T02:56:49Z")
Hell, attacking a small country is easier than fixing a sick economy, and you get more points for it! (and, one of these times, we’ll actually get the guy we’re (nominally) after - remember ObL - “Dead or Alive”? Little dubya couldn’t pull it off - maybe this time…) Keep voting GOP, folks - there are still a few Muslim countries where we don’t yet have troops! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/14 "2002-12-28T12:14:09Z")
I presume the point of this buildup is really to invade Pakistan - the terrorist-harboring country that already has both nukes and medium-range missiles, and has provided nuclear technology to North Korea. What? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/15 "2002-12-28T13:13:27Z")
> [@](#): > > remember ObL - “Dead or Alive”? Little dubya couldn’t pull it off How’s that? Usama is either dead or alive. As promised. So… are there any publicly-traded companies that supply DIY bomb shelters like the ones that were so popular in the 1950’s? I’d like to see if I can manage to be a peacenik _and_ a war profiteer, just to piss all the right people off. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/16 "2002-12-28T14:01:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Larry Mudd \* > \*\*How’s that? Usama is either dead or alive. As promised. > > So… are there any publicly-traded companies that supply DIY bomb shelters like the ones that were so popular in the 1950’s? > > I’d like to see if I can manage to be a peacenik _and_ a war profiteer, just to piss all the right people off. \*\* Just invest in the companies that make gas masks, nerve agent antidotes, and medical supplies. That’ll pretty much cover all your bases. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/17 "2002-12-28T15:31:02Z")
Um… Isn’t the United States supposed to be the _good_ guys? I thought the good guys weren’t the ones who started wars. I was all for invading Afghanistan. We had proof that the Taliban supported ObL, al qaeda, _et. al_. Heck, if they wanted me to fly a Black Hawk I would have gone in a heartbeat. But IMO invading Iraq is wrong. The public have not been offered any proof of Sadam’s support of terrorists. The CIA have submitted a report that states that Sadam is unlikely to use NBC weapons (outside of his own country – he’s already used chemical weapons against the Kurds) unless he is provoked into using them. Hmm… What’s a good way to provoke him? Invasion, maybe? For now, Sadam is contained. I don’t think we should make war on him unless he actually does something (as when he invaded Kuwait). My co-workers say, “What? Do you want to wait until he \*explodes a nuclear bomb in the United States? :eek: We’ve got to kill him _now!_” I believe that we need a “smoking gun” before we can legitimately attack him. Unfortunately, a smoking gun is one that has already been fired. Still, I don’t believe that the “shot” will be as drastic as the warmongers make it out to be. We invaded Panama and Grenada, but generally we tend to have a “no first strike” policy. I think we should make a first strike _if_ an attack is imminent; not because “He tried to kill my pa!” or because we just don’t like him. This is my opinion, and I don’t mean to offend any of our European Dopers. **I may well be wrong.** But here it goes: If we attack Iraq, Europe will gain the advantages of a victory. They can sit back and point fingers at the U.S. for being a world-class bully, and still enjoy whatever benefits come from the ouster of Sadam. In my opinion, the U.S. should not attack Iraq until and unless the rest of the world community unequivocally supports such an attack and there is overwhelming evidence that such an attack is warranted. When I see French and German troops being offered to fight in Iraq, then I’ll think it’s time. Why are we going to war with Iraq? “Because he has, or is making, weapons of mass destruction.” Not because Iraq has been proven to have been using terrorists to attack other countries. Not because he’s lobbing Scuds against Isreal. Not even because Iraqi forces routinely shoot at allied aircraft in the no-fly zones. We’re attacking because he’s making weapons. By that logic, why didn’t we attack the Soviet Union in the late-1940s? Why didn’t we attack Israel or France or China? Why aren’t we attacking North Korea? Why haven’t _we_ been attacked by others who fear that we might use our NBC weapons? Before bullets fly and bombs drop, I think we need a better reason. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/18 "2002-12-29T02:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Um… Isn’t the United States supposed to be the good guys? I thought the good guys weren’t the ones who started wars. Yeah, you 'n me both. Ask not for what the bell tolls, for I fear it’s no longer liberty… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/19 "2002-12-29T07:18:45Z")
> [@](#): > > They can sit back and point fingers at the U.S. for being a world-class bully, and still enjoy whatever benefits come from the ouster of Sadam. That’s assuming anything good _will_ come of it. My prediction: We ouster Saddam and his administration, and Iraq will be left governmentless, which will lead to Iran making friendly with the southern Shias. Iran and their new-found Shi’ite comrades will make a move to taking over the land, albeit in a bloody fashion. Then, we’ll have a bunch of dead Sunnis and Kurds on our hands, and a worse bunch of guys occupying the land than before. Papa Bush and his administration knew this and never had any intention of taking Sadam out during the Gulf War. James Baker told Iraqi Minister Tarik Aziz just days before the Gulf War started: > [@](#): > > If the conflict starts, God forbid, and chemical or biological weapons are used against our forces, the American people would demand vengeance. We have the means to exact it. With regard to this part of my presentation, this is not a threat, it is a promise. **If there is any use of weapons like that, our objective won’t be only the liberation of Kuwait, but also the elimination of the current Iraqi regime,** and anyone responsible for using those weapons would be held accountable." (from James Baker’s "The Politics of Diplomacy, bolding mine) He was basically saying that _if_ they played fair, we’d let them stay in power. If not, we’d wipe them out. Ambiguous, yes. Calculated, most definetly. We got what we wanted (oil), they fought fair, and we got the hell out. Taking out Saddam now --just like a decade ago-- would lead to a worser fate. I’m no pacifist, but this potential war is a huge mistake. My 2 cents. Happy ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240/20 "2002-12-29T07:54:34Z")
I say this jokingly. . . Woooooooooooooooo! Job security!! Woooooo! Tripler Like I said, I say it jokingly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hold-onto-your-butts-were-goin-to-war/145240.md?page=2)