# Holder CIA Witch Hunt comes up without witches....bitches. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 5, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952 "2011-07-05T23:21:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/1 "2011-07-05T23:21:20Z")
And the desire for more liberal porn comes up empty. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-cias-exoneration-and-holders-reckoning/2011/07/04/gHQASrfnxH\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-cias-exoneration-and-holders-reckoning/2011/07/04/gHQASrfnxH_story.html) Perhaps this will be considered a bit ideologically confrontational, but this probe has angered me from the beginning. The reasons why it was wrong were very well laid out in the link. In short, Holder was determined to try and force reality to conform to his liberal fantasy about what he wanted to be true about the CIA. After two years, countless dollars and untold personnel damage at the CIA, Holder is faced with the reality that his May Day present is an empty box. Perhaps if he didn’t ascribe to the liberal cartoon version of the CIA as reality, he wouldn’t have been so quick to make himself look like a frustrated idealogue instead of the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/2 "2011-07-05T23:25:49Z")
That article just screams right wing propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/3 "2011-07-05T23:42:43Z")
I don’t think you know what the term “witch hunt” means. A witch hunt that doesn’t find any witches isn’t a witch hunt. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/4 "2011-07-05T23:48:00Z")
Not sure I want to base my judgement on an opinion piece written by a former speech writer for GW Bush-- someone on record defending the “enhanced interrogation” techniques used by that administration. Got an actual news article where we can get some unbiased reporting on the subject? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/5 "2011-07-05T23:49:58Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I don’t think you know what the term “witch hunt” means. A witch hunt that doesn’t find any witches isn’t a witch hunt. Maybe the OP doesn’t believe in witches. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/6 "2011-07-05T23:53:58Z")
Does he believe in ducks? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/7 "2011-07-05T23:59:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not sure I want to base my judgement on an opinion piece written by a former speech writer for GW Bush-- someone on record defending the “enhanced interrogation” techniques used by that administration. Got an actual news article where we can get some unbiased reporting on the subject? Here is a report from the Australian news agency. Perhaps media outlets in the United States find the development too much to bear. [http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1567135/CIA-torture-probes-dropped](http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1567135/CIA-torture-probes-dropped) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/8 "2011-07-06T00:03:47Z")
Wait. “News 24” might be based in the United States. A quick Google search also indicates the Canadian music channel “Fuse” is also paying more attention to the development than ABC, NBC, CBS et al. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/9 "2011-07-06T00:04:55Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Does he believe in ducks? Yes, Silenus. After a two year desperate search for ducks, Holder came up duckless. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/10 "2011-07-06T00:06:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That article just screams right wing propaganda. Which the Washington Post is well known for. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/11 "2011-07-06T00:11:02Z")
> [@Evil\_One](#): > > Which the Washington Post is well known for. Ahem: > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not sure I want to base my judgement on an opinion piece written by a former speech writer for GW Bush-- someone on record defending the “enhanced interrogation” techniques used by that administration. That pretty much discredits the article all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/12 "2011-07-06T00:19:57Z")
[Another Perspective](http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/01/torture/index.html)–less “there was no one to prosecute” and more “let’s shield those responsible from real accountability”. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/13 "2011-07-06T00:32:55Z")
A perspective that I would expect from “Salon”. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/14 "2011-07-06T00:39:35Z")
He’s pro-torture, which makes him a monster. He’s an apologist and advocate for war crimes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/15 "2011-07-06T00:41:40Z")
Wait, there are **no witches in the CIA?!** Dammit! No wonder 9/11 happened! :mad: Who’s in charge of recruiting over there, anyhow?! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/16 "2011-07-06T00:42:37Z")
So, just to be clear here…you are offering the proposition that this cessation of investigation is a certain and unambiguous signal of perfect innocence on the part of our intelligence agencies and their various “contractors”? There is nothing to see here, so we might best be advised to move along? Is it the CIA’s history that gives you such confidence? Its unblemished record in Viet Nam and Central/South America, a shining example of humanism and respect for democracy? Would that it be it, or have you some other evidence to offer? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/17 "2011-07-06T00:47:38Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > [Another Perspective](http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/07/01/torture/index.html)–less “there was no one to prosecute” and more “let’s shield those responsible from real accountability”. YMMV. There isn’t really a reason to squabble about opinions. The Justice Department investigated over 100 incidents and found cause to open a criminal investigation in one new incident previously unknown to the public, and a second incident at Abu Ghraib that was already widely reported on. The Justice Department has officially stated no criminal investigations are warranted in any of the other cases, so by and large yes, the bulk of the CIA has been 100% exonerated. [Link](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=137531630) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/18 "2011-07-06T00:53:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, just to be clear here…you are offering the proposition that this cessation of investigation is a certain and unambiguous signal of perfect innocence on the part of our intelligence agencies and their various “contractors”? There is nothing to see here, so we might best be advised to move along? > > Actually, the investigations into two deaths under the responsibilities of contracters are still open, as they should be. I believe an assault charge was also filed. > > And given the political nature of the investigation, I’m certain Holder would have seized onto anything to avoid looking partisan and foolish. The fact that he could not accept the conclusions by the former Virginia prosecutors indicates that Holder wanted the allegations to be true, facts be damned. > [@elucidator](#): > > Is it the CIA’s history that gives you such confidence? Its unblemished record in Viet Nam and Central/South America, a shining example of humanism and respect for democracy? Would that it be it, or have you some other evidence to offer? Honestly, Luci, my reaction is that the 60’s are over. The CIA has had to deal with it’s cartoon image for so long that I’m sure they are loath to do much of anything to step over the line. Even if they thought they could get away with it, political appointees such as Holder who would stop at nothing to hang them would give them pause. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/19 "2011-07-06T00:54:54Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The Justice Department has officially stated no criminal investigations are warranted in any of the other cases, so by and large yes, the bulk of the CIA has been 100% exonerated. > > [Link](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=137531630) Quite the “buzzkill”, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952/20 "2011-07-06T00:55:05Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > There isn’t really a reason to squabble about opinions. The Justice Department investigated over 100 incidents and found cause to open a criminal investigation in one new incident previously unknown to the public, and a second incident at Abu Ghraib that was already widely reported on. > > The Justice Department has officially stated no criminal investigations are warranted in any of the other cases, so by and large yes, the bulk of the CIA has been 100% exonerated. > > [Link](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=137531630) From your own link:: > [@](#): > > However, the American Civil Liberties Union faulted Durham’s review as failing to scrutinize senior officials. > > “Durham’s mandate was far too narrow,” said Hina Shamsi, director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project. “Durham was tasked principally with investigating interrogations that went beyond the bounds set by the Justice Department. However, the central problem was not with interrogators who disobeyed orders, but with senior officials who authorized a program of torture.” So all they were looking for are examples of unauthorized torture. That’s not “exoneration”. On the contrary, it just underlines how it wasn’t “just a few bad apples” but a deliberate, agency wide campaign of brutality. They were torturing people in a network of secret prisons, according to your own article. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holder-cia-witch-hunt-comes-up-without-witches-bitches/587952.md?page=2)