# Holding an M16 when not firing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2009, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006 "2009-10-24T21:58:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/21 "2009-10-25T13:03:51Z")
I just broke out my AR to try holding it like this and it’s not very comfortable. His finger is on the magazine release. The safety is on the other side and operated by the thumb. Touching both is easy if the gun is away from the chest a little more or pointed forward, but I have to twist my hand a little to touch them both at the angle he is holding the gun. It’s not hard but I wouldn’t want to keep it in that position. I think they caught him mid-adjustment or something. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/22 "2009-10-25T13:16:07Z")
You wouldn’t thumb the safety unless the weapon was firmly at your shoulder and pointing at the enemy anyway. The drill is raise weapon, hit safety, not hit safety, raise weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/23 "2009-10-25T13:52:40Z")
I was just pointing out that I doubt his finger is on the safety. The position itself is almost normal but too rigid. It is only comfortable if you either relax the wrist and index finger a little or lower the elbow, which also causes you to relax the wrist and index finger. Having all three in that rigid position is uncomfortable after a couple of seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/24 "2009-10-25T20:49:57Z")
His right hand is actually completely relaxed. The left hand is holding the weapon, and the right hand is more at rest than anything else. It would be uncomfortable to _hold_ a weapon with your right hand in that rigid position, but that’s not exactly what’s happening. Holding the weapon with his left hand, and keeping his right hand in that position isn’t too hard to sustain. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/25 "2009-10-25T20:51:09Z")
Also, when you have kit and pouches to rest your arms on it gets even easier. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/26 "2009-10-25T20:55:09Z")
Also the man in pic #34 has no sling or strap or caribiner. He’s simply holding his weapon with his hands. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/27 "2009-10-25T21:11:18Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > His right hand is actually completely relaxed. I have to disagree, but maybe it only applies to my arm/wrist/finger. I held my AR-15 seconds ago and took notes. Having my wrist turned and finger perfectly straight like that puts tension across the top of my hand. Lowering my elbow relaxes the tension in my hand but also relaxes my finger a little and puts it right under the mag release instead of on top of it. Moving my hand alone doesn’t seem to do much but relaxing my finger alone makes everything fairly comfortable. I could do it all day as long as one of the three (arm/wrist/finger) aren’t in that exact position. I just think he relaxed slightly after the photo was taken, but that is based only on my arm. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/28 "2009-10-25T21:51:40Z")
[A whole bunch of soldiers carrying weapons as per this thread.](http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2006/05/10/58448333.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/29 "2009-10-25T21:59:24Z")
I have no idea what you’re saying. But holding your AR-15 for a couple minutes and taking notes isn’t nothing like holding an M-16 for several hours. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/30 "2009-10-26T00:09:33Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > I have no idea what you’re saying. But holding your AR-15 for a couple minutes and taking notes isn’t nothing like holding an M-16 for several hours. I’m sorry if it was unclear, but how exactly would it be more comfortable to hold it for several hours if it wasn’t exactly comfortable for a couple minutes? > [@Alessan](#): > > [A whole bunch of soldiers carrying weapons as per this thread.](http://uploaded.fresh.co.il/2006/05/10/58448333.jpg) But none are holding it exactly the same as the guy in the original photo with elbow raised and index finger perfectly straight. The guy in the lower left is closest but is holding the gun closer to the left side of his body which stretches his arm out a bit. All the rest have either their arm lower, the rifle lower, or their finger is not perfectly straight. ---
**Author:** ![Snite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Snite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snite)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/31 "2009-10-29T21:59:42Z")
[http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/11bulletstop/me2.jpg](http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj90/11bulletstop/me2.jpg) That is how it’s held on patrol. Trigger finger is straight and though you can’t see it, my thumb is resting on the selector switch. The only thing I’m doing wrong is that I didn’t have my buttstock against my shoulder. Picture must have been taken after shifting position. And Fubaya, your couple of minutes does in no way compare to my countless thousands of hours across three tours in Iraq. I have no tension across my hand that you describe. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/32 "2009-10-29T22:21:06Z")
Carrying the rifle in a consistent position keeps the muzzle pointed in a consistent direction. This then requires less effort and attention to avoid pointing it at one’s comrades, civilians, etc. Depending on circumstances it may not be possible at all times to avoid pointing your weapon at another soldier, but it is bad form to do it when it is easily avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/33 "2009-10-29T23:33:30Z")
> [@Snite](#): > > And Fubaya, your couple of minutes does in no way compare to my countless thousands of hours across three tours in Iraq. I have no tension across my hand that you describe. Look, I’m nitpicking. I’ve held mine for hours in nearly the same pose with wrist bent and finger extended, but I didn’t realize until this thread that having my elbow up like the guy in the photo adds tension and gets uncomfortable quick. Again, maybe it’s just me and I know I’m over-analyzing the photo, I tend to do that when it comes to handling weapons. I have actually held them for more than a couple of minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Nunavut\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e95f7d/32.png) [@Nunavut\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunavut_Boy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006/34 "2009-10-30T02:50:18Z")
I think he’s holding it like that more rigidly because he’s posing a little bit for the photo. I know from personal experience that it’s a total pain in the ass to lug around a C9. Sometimes I would sort of let the pistol grip rest on/behind the mag pouches on my webbing. Bad form, probably, but there’s not too many of the enemy out at 3am in rural Alberta. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holding-an-m16-when-not-firing/515006.md?page=1)