# Holiday Inn - That was disturbing **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918 "2008-03-27T15:21:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/1 "2008-03-27T15:21:21Z")
I watched _Holiday Inn_ last night. I didn’t really know that much about it, just that it was an Irving Berlin musical with Fred Astaire and Bing Crosby. I thought it would be a delightful, little comedy with a bunch of songs about holidays. And that is what I got, except for the horrible racism. It started with Mamie. This character is Bing Crosby’s cook and maid. She is just another example of the stereotypical cheerful, dumb black servant. OK, I thought, it was a different time and this was fairly common; don’t let it ruin the movie. Then comes the blackface. Bing decides at the last minute that he and Marjorie Reynolds should do their Lincoln’s Birthday number in blackface so Astaire will not recognize her. This was clearly a lie. Everyone else in also in blackface for the song, too. When the song starts with Bing in full blackface it is pretty bad, but nothing compared to when Reynolds comes on and starts singing. The song even refers to black people as darkies. I honestly did not know that blackface was still acceptable in the 1940s. When did blackface finally become unacceptable? At least, this film shows how far we have come. [http://www.genestush.com/images/blkfc.jpg](http://www.genestush.com/images/blkfc.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/2 "2008-03-27T15:48:54Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I honestly did not know that blackface was still acceptable in the 1940s. When did blackface finally become unacceptable? [/QUOTE] In 1993Ted Danson appeared blackface for a tribute to Whoopi Goldberg, his then girlfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/3 "2008-03-27T15:50:41Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] In 1993 Ted Danson appeared blackface for a tribute to Whoopi Goldberg, his then girlfriend. [/QUOTE] Which according to Whoopi was as much her idea as his. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/4 "2008-03-27T15:54:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by_ **Two and a Half Inches of Fun** : > I honestly did not know that blackface was still acceptable in the 1940s. When did blackface finally become unacceptable? I’m sorry to say \*The [Black and White Minstrel Show](http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tv/id/535195/) \* ran on UK television from 1958-78 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/5 "2008-03-27T16:08:16Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Which according to Whoopi was as much her idea as his. [/QUOTE] And, as I recall, she was the only person in the USA who thought it was funny. Maybe it was because Americans have finally grown up, but I think it was because it was a stupid stunt that fell flat. (recalling Fred Armisen playing Barack Obama, Darrell Hammond playing Jesse Jackson, and Frank Caliendo playing Charles Barkley) Wow, they aren’t the least bit funny! Do you think Americans have finally begun to grow up and comedians haven’t caught on? ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/6 "2008-03-27T16:11:45Z")
When the movie is shown on television, the blackface song is almost always excised. Which causes a bit of confusion, as you miss the development of the relationship between Bing and Marjorie Reynolds, as well as the beginning of the effort by Bing to conceal her from Fred. As for “darkies,” it was only VERY recently that the Stephen Foster song “My Old Kentucky Home” started being sung without the lyric “It’s summer, the darkies are gay.” What made you think that America in 1940 was no longer stereotyping blacks or treating them as second class citizens entitled to ridicule? ---
**Author:** ![thwartme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@thwartme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thwartme)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/7 "2008-03-27T16:13:14Z")
Robert Downey Jr. will be testing the envelope very soon… [http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/news/first-look-robert-downey-jr-as-black-man-in-tropic-thunder.php](http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/news/first-look-robert-downey-jr-as-black-man-in-tropic-thunder.php) There was an episode of Jeeves & Wooster from the nineties (but set in the 30s) where there was a whole crowd of folks in black face. thwartme ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/8 "2008-03-27T16:14:30Z")
[A recent discussion of this topic](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457234). ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/9 "2008-03-27T16:15:34Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] As for “darkies,” it was only VERY recently that the Stephen Foster song “My Old Kentucky Home” started being sung without the lyric “It’s summer, the darkies are gay.” [/QUOTE] Are we now denying the existence of black homosexual folk? Or are they only supposed to hang out in winter now? ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/10 "2008-03-27T16:18:14Z")
No, they can be gay the whole year round. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/11 "2008-03-27T16:25:16Z")
Doodah, doodah! ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/12 "2008-03-27T17:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] What made you think that America in 1940 was no longer stereotyping blacks or treating them as second class citizens entitled to ridicule? [/QUOTE] Well, in 1948 the Motion Picture Association of America revised its Production Code to prohibit racially insulting portrayals. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/13 "2008-03-27T17:50:14Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] What made you think that America in 1940 was no longer stereotyping blacks or treating them as second class citizens entitled to ridicule? [/QUOTE] I had the impression, which was obviously wrong, that blackface became unacceptable in the mid-1930s. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/14 "2008-03-27T17:52:43Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] Well, in 1948 the Motion Picture Association of America revised its Production Code to prohibit racially insulting portrayals. [/QUOTE] I did not know that. Thanks for the info. I was aware that depictions of blackface diminished considerably after the end of WWII but I thought it entirely had to do with a shift in attitudes toward race during that period. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/15 "2008-03-27T17:58:58Z")
After the change in the Production Code came a flurry of racially positive portrayals: _Intruder in the Dust_ (1949), _Pinky_ (1949), _She Wore a Yellow Ribbon_ (1949), _Home of the Brave_ (1949), _No Way Out_ (1950), and _Broken Arrow_ (1950). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/16 "2008-03-27T18:45:40Z")
Didn’t they also come out with a flurry of films that had black characters in isolated scenes that could be easily removed from prints for Southern distribution? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/17 "2008-03-27T18:58:22Z")
I can’t think of one example of that post-1948. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/18 "2008-03-27T19:08:56Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] Didn’t they also come out with a flurry of films that had black characters in isolated scenes that could be easily removed from prints for Southern distribution? [/QUOTE] Wow, I bet the film _Porgy and Bess_ was really short when it was screened in Birmingham, Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/19 "2008-03-27T19:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] I can’t think of one example of that post-1948. [/QUOTE] In _That’s Entertainment III_ Lena Horne talks about the phenomenon IIRC. But it’s been a while since I saw it so I don’t recall specific films that she mentioned where this may have happened. Looking at her [filmography](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Horne#Filmography) she does have some films right around the 1948 date. And of course she did lose out on the role in _Showboat_ because of the interracial issue. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918/20 "2008-03-27T20:52:20Z")
I love _Holiday Inn_ despite the blackface scene, which I rarely saw when it was shown on television. It’s a rare holiday film from that era with a snarky dark side; all the leads are so manipulative and sneaky that they kinda deserve the trouble they get into. The romantic rivalry between Bing and Fred is especially amusing, notably in the Washington’s Birthday song. The song starts as a tender, romantic piece where Fred’s wooing Marjorie Reynolds, but whenever he’s about to kiss her, Bing (who’s conducting the band) switches the score to a hot swing number, ruining the moment and forcing Fred to improvise a wild dance to match the music. And I _like_ Mamie. Yes, another black maid character, but she’s funny and warm and has dignity to her. She’s Louise Beavers, damnit, she’s awesome! And Mamie’s kids are freakin’ adorable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holiday-inn-that-was-disturbing/442918.md?page=2)