# Holier-than-thou Monty **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 12, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662 "2002-06-12T16:07:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/41 "2002-06-16T04:16:19Z")
I’d really like to reply to your posts, RT. Problem, though, is they’re not making any sense, as The Ryan so ably indicated above. BTW, you’ll notice I said “peeved about stuff you’ve read into simple writings.” I’m peeved about the stuff you explicitly said. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/42 "2002-06-16T04:40:44Z")
What the hey, maybe this’ll help. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Just saying “Great Commission” like it’s some magic mantra that absolves you of any wrongdoing doesn’t cut it either. > > Well, at first, I used it as one of the foundations of my position in the original debate. Ah, but you also said you were using it as the foundation of what you thought someone else’s (the liars) debating position would be. That’s incredibly close to bridgedwelling, IMHO. > [@](#): > > But when you responded as if it wasn’t there, I was in fact entitled to wave it around like a magic mantra. I don’t see how you’re “entitled to wave it around like a magic mantra.” The rules don’t provide for a nifty “Hey, if it’s inconvenient, then they don’t apply!” proviso. > [@](#): > > Them’s the rules, son: if you don’t actually respond to the strengths of the other guy’s argument, he’s entitled to remind you of the insufficiency of your response until you remedy it or concede. Besides my not being your son, you’re mistaken on the rest also. I already proved my case. You’re the one who is trying to prove what you seem to think someone else’s case might be. > [@](#): > > You quote Jesus’ words: > > > [@](#): > > > > For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whoseoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. > > So, Monty, do you have a railing around the roof of your house to keep people from falling off? I don’t see the word “railing” mentioned there. So it’s alsos the Bible that you read extra stuff into? Explains a lot, that. > [@](#): > > And do Mormons join the armed forces? Sure do. I happen to be a retired Navy Petty Officer First Class. > [@](#): > > I’m sure killing is occasionally involved in that occupation. Doesn’t have to be. There are such people as Conscientious Objectors which are divided into separate classes of Objectors, at least one class of which doesn’t object to being in the Armed Forces, just to killing. > [@](#): > > Or is murdering a proper subset of killing, Murder is a particular type of killing apparently and killing at specific times has been commanded by the God of the Old Testament. You might recall that bit about what the Israelites were supposed to do when they went into occupy the Land of Canaan, for one. > [@](#): > > but bearing false witness against one’s neighbor not a proper subset of lying? Not at all. “Bearing false witness” is “bearing false witness.” As shown above, a lie is a false witness. > [@](#): > > And I guess you don’t honor the least of Paul’s commands about temperate language, but neither have I, I suppose. Yeah, you got all upset about me pointing out a truth that you don’t like. So, you started this thread and now you’re really struggling (and not making a whole lot of sense) to rescue _something_ out of it. > [@](#): > > But be that as it may, I’m glad you recognize the authority of Jesus’ words somewhere. Where did I say I didn’t? IIRC, you’re the one who’s saying that it’s okay to run around rationalizing away stuff. I’m the one who says The Big Guy didn’t say “unless you can rationalize it away.” > [@](#): > > I was starting to think you guys were the Church of Moses of Latter Day Saints. Try not to take the actions of one member of a group to be the actions of the group. For example, your stupid comment here I blame on you and not on the entire group of perissodactyls. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: > > One of them being “go ye therefore and teach all nations”. Not, “go ye therefore, and teach all the nations whose leaders give you permission to talk to their people.” And I ask you again: exactly where does it say “Go ahead and lie your tush off to do this?” > [@](#): > > The problem is still, if we are not supposed to break the least of these commandments, what happens when they collide? And since they’re not colliding, where’s that leave you? And as soon as I can find it, I’ll post the verse that says one can’t enter Heaven if one’s telling fibs. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/43 "2002-06-17T00:14:28Z")
As promised, from the KJV (underlining and notation mine): > [@](#): > > _Revelations 21:27_ > And there shall in no wise enter into it[sup]1[/sup] any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life. > > [sup]1[/sup]Referring to Heaven ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/44 "2002-06-17T01:39:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Matthew 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. > 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.” > 3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? > 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread–which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. > 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? > 6 I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. > 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent. > 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.” > 9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, > 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” > 11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? > 12 How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” Obviously there can be overriding concerns. Everything is not black and white, no matter how hard you close your eyes and wish it were so. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/45 "2002-06-17T05:19:39Z")
So, everyone’s mad because **Monty** won’t lie? LOL Yeah, geez, what a fucking **jerk**. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/46 "2002-06-17T05:35:46Z")
Years ago, I remember watching “The Sound of Music” with my mom. She could get in these moods where she’d suck the joy out of anything. She acted _offended_ because the nuns _lied_ to the Nazis about the whereabouts of the Von Trapp family. My mom said, “They LIED! This movie is BAD, because the nuns LIED!” She was trying to act serious, but it was all too preposterous. Come on. Give me a break. Not all lies are created equal. Or, is “The Sound of Music” a **bad** movie, because it advocates lying? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/47 "2002-06-17T06:04:01Z")
Gee, Joe, I checked the Decalogue again, you know, just to make sure I wasn’t imagining it; however, there’s not word one in there about bread. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662/48 "2002-06-17T15:49:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*So, everyone’s mad because **Monty** won’t lie? LOL Yeah, geez, what a fucking **jerk**. :rolleyes: \*\* Ummm . . . yeah. That’s exactly it, **erl**. Here’s a nice glass of milk. Go back to bed, hmm? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holier-than-thou-monty/113662.md?page=2)