# Holland / Netherlands

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holland-netherlands/250646>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [June 16, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holland-netherlands/250646 "2004-06-16T13:33:17Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\
**Post date:** [June 17, 2004, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holland-netherlands/250646/21 "2004-06-17T19:46:03Z")

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> [@elfbabe](#):
>
> Holland [was an independent country](http://worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/holland.htm) until the 16th century.

The problem I have with this cite is calling Holland an “independent country”. It wasn’t - it was a dependent _county_. It started ( fromn the ninth century ) as a western chunk of the County of Fiesland/Frisia ( which stretched east to the Danish border ). Later it became a seperate county as West Frisia, later yet the County of Holland ( 14th century ). At all times it was a component chunk of the German Kingdom/Holy Roman Empire. Not only was it subject to the emperor/king of the Germans, it also was often vassal to the Dukes of ( successively ) Lorraine and Lower Lorraine. Later it passed to the French Dukes of Burgundy, thence to the Hapsburgs and Spain.

IMHO it can’t be said to have been an independent _country_ until the Dutch War of Independence seperated it from Spain.

- Tamerlane

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**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\
**Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holland-netherlands/250646/22 "2004-06-18T07:29:00Z")

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Originally posted by **Shade**

> [@](#):
>
> _I propose we adopt “Nederland” into English. Who’s with me?_

Oh, I am.

And let us adopt “Nederlanders” - instead of the Dutch -. And “Nederlands” instead of [speaking] Dutch.

More on Nederland: [Scroll to ‘history’](http://http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107824.html)

btw: There are also the Nederlandse dependencies: Aruba, Bonaire & Curaçao. And the Dutch Lesser Antilles to the north—Sint Eustatius, the southern part of Saint Martin (Nederlands: Sint Maarten), and Saba.

\*About the use of ‘Holland’: I once was celebrating carnaval in Limburg [southern province of Nederland], when a Limburger asked me [in my own language - well, sorta 😃 -] : “Are you from Holland?”.  
I was flabergasted and asked: “Well, yeah. Aren’t you?”

Apparently he didn’t think so. 🙂 \*

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**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\
**Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holland-netherlands/250646/23 "2004-06-18T09:49:19Z")

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> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#):
>
> [aside]  
> What’s the derivation of “sjeng”?

“Sjeng” is a first name common in Maastricht. IFRC it’s a regional form of John.

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