# Hollywood directors who just aren't good at their craft **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672 "2014-03-14T06:00:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/41 "2014-03-15T17:31:13Z")
_shrug_ You’re entitled to your opinion, and when it comes to matters of art there is certainly a large amount of personal preference and subjective interpretation as to what is considered ‘good entertainment’. But from any objective standard, I think the films are clumsily constructed, sloppily plotted, and the characterization about as deep as the movie posters in the lobby. If I had turned in a screenplay like that in my scriptwriting class I would have gotten a C+ at best. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/42 "2014-03-15T18:53:33Z")
Kinda makes me wonder how many $100 million+ movies would have gotten a similar grade, and how many A+ grades would have bombed utterly. The _Trek_ reboots are indeed pretty damn terrible. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/43 "2014-03-15T21:15:39Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _shrug_ You’re entitled to your opinion, and when it comes to matters of art there is certainly a large amount of personal preference and subjective interpretation as to what is considered ‘good entertainment’. Agreed, but your claim that the Star Trek reboots aren’t good by any critical standard doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/44 "2014-03-15T21:37:35Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Agreed, but your claim that the Star Trek reboots aren’t good by any critical standard doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. If you say so. I find the plots to be a sloppy mess than is dealt with by arbitrarily invoking transparent McGuffins like ‘red matter fixes all problems’ or ‘we’ll take blood from the genetic supersoldier Khan to magically bring Kirk back to life’. These are exactly the type of ridiculous plot mechanics that films like _Galaxy Quest_ or _Adaptation_ exist to mock. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/45 "2014-03-16T01:22:02Z")
I’ll second Christopher Nolan. Those Batman movies were boring. And Batman was my favorite superhero growing up. I wanted to like them, but bleh. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/46 "2014-03-16T02:25:28Z")
Jason Friedberg and Aaron Seltzer. They always work together because the directorial duties of films like _Meet the Spartans_ and _Disaster Movie_ is just too much for one man to take on. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/47 "2014-03-16T20:56:14Z")
Woody Allen took a few films to figure out directing. **Everything You Wanted to Know About Sex** was his first film where the directing wasn’t awkward (even if the script was bad), and since **Love and Death** , he’s had his craft down. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/48 "2014-03-18T06:22:15Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Peter Greenaway. > > Genius art director, but absolutely hopeless directing human beings, and should never be given control of a movie. > > A movie group I was part of got hijacked by some fans of this hack, and I had to sit through his entire execrable ovure. His worst crime was destroying John Geilgood’s dream of playing Prospero via his crap direction and dreadful stylistic choices. On the other hand, if you ever wondered what Shakespeare would look like filmed as a Duran Duran video, he was your boy. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/49 "2014-03-18T15:33:06Z")
Re: Christopher Nolan, yeah I never liked his Batman movies, but _Inception_, _Momento_, and especially _The Prestige_ are masterpieces. I thought of the worst movies I’ve seen, a list which usually starts with _Envy_. Barry Levinson directed that. Looking at his filmography, there are a bunch of darn good movies in a variety of genres on there, but far too many ‘worst ever’ ones, too. _Toys_ and _Sphere_ along with _Envy_ are all truly terrible, and he’s responsible for Robin Williams never growing up. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/50 "2014-03-18T17:08:53Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > I thought of the worst movies I’ve seen, a list which usually starts with _Envy_. Barry Levinson directed that. Looking at his filmography, there are a bunch of darn good movies in a variety of genres on there, but far too many ‘worst ever’ ones, too. _Toys_ and _Sphere_ along with _Envy_ are all truly terrible, and he’s responsible for Robin Williams never growing up. Levinson first skill is as a screenwriter and because of that, his best movies as a director are generally realistic and dialogue-driven. However, when he ventures outside his wheelhouse (e.g., **Toys** and **Sphere** ), the results usually aren’t pretty. Also, I don’t he’s ever really recovered from the failure of **Toys**. For some reason, that movie took a lot out of him. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/51 "2014-03-19T07:42:33Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > I’m going to throw Christopher Nolan into the pot. Dude _cannot_ direct an action scene. He sets up these big, complicated scenes between two opposing groups attacking or fighting each other – but then films them so incoherently that I have no effin’ clue which group is which. Wait, am I rooting for those guys to scale that icy wall, or am I rooting for the other guys to repel them? No idea. Drives me effin’ nuts. Thanks for posting this, because I was beginning to think it was just me. I had _no idea_ what was happening in the action sequences of any of his Batman movies. “Is Batman fighting somebody? Who just hit Batman? Or was that Batman hitting a bad guy? Is Batman even IN this scene?” Then I had _no idea_ what was happening in Inception’s big action setpieces. I could see what was happening, but I had no clue who was who, or whether this was good or bad for the main characters. The guy is a talented director, but he shouldn’t be doing action movies. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/52 "2014-03-19T11:39:00Z")
How is Nolan on this list? I mean he might not be great like a lot of people think, but compared to people like Tyler Perry, Seltzer and Friedburg, Raja Gosnell, Robert Rodriguez, Courtney Solomon, and Uwe Boll the man is a genius. Although, to be fair to Uwe Boll, most of his movies are independent and done on a pretty shoestring budget. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/53 "2014-03-19T14:19:12Z")
Because he’s a director of action movies who can’t direct action sequences. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/54 "2014-03-19T14:34:09Z")
I wouldn’t really consider him a director of action movies. Thrillers, yes. Even the batman movies were a lot more thriller than action. But even if that’s true, he is overall a good director, in terms of the movies he makes, performances he gets out of actors, shot choices, etc. I’m not saying it’s not a valid criticism, because it absolutely is, but the OP asked for hack directors, and Nolan is definitely not a hack. Particularly when you compare him to some of the directors I’ve listed, who have never really shown any directorial merit, in any area. Nolan’s bad at action sequences. Tyler Perry can’t film a two shot. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/55 "2014-03-19T15:04:04Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > If you say so. I find the plots to be a sloppy mess than is dealt with by arbitrarily invoking transparent McGuffins like ‘red matter fixes all problems’ or ‘we’ll take blood from the genetic supersoldier Khan to magically bring Kirk back to life’. These are exactly the type of ridiculous plot mechanics that films like _Galaxy Quest_ or _Adaptation_ exist to mock. You’re criticizing the script, even after it’s been pointed out to you that Abrams didn’t write it. You also seem to be confusing critical reception with your opinion. Rotten Tomatoes scores are, in my opinion, anyway, an accurate measure of critical reception. Star Trek (2009) has a 90+%. Ted, which you cite as one of many “comedic crowd pleasers which are still outstanding films on a critical level” has a 68%, which is good, sure, but not as good as ST’s score. You then go on to attempt to explain ST’s score by chalking it up to the built in fan base of the franchise. Well, maybe film critics are overwhelmingly Trekkies, I guess that could be. Confusingly, though, other films in the chain are notorious mutts-- Nemesis comes in at 37%, for example. So that’s not it, either. Personally, I did not enjoy Star Trek much, but it clearly did well with both the critics and at the box office, which are not the calling cards of a bad director. I think the film was fairly true to the original material, which is, as you admit, ridiculous. > [@twickster](#): > > Because he’s a director of action movies who can’t direct action sequences. Yeah, you said that already. Do you have some examples of particularly bad sequences you can share? They’d have to be really bad to sink the entire film. Personally, I think he cuts away too often, and I remember the first time Batman fought with Bane looking slow, but those things are not enough for me to say Nolan’s bad at his job. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/56 "2014-03-19T15:31:12Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > You’re criticizing the script, even after it’s been pointed out to you that Abrams didn’t write it. Abrams may not have a writing or story credit, but the credited writers (Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman) are the creative team he has worked with since _Alias_ and _Fringe_, and his comments make it clear that he has substantial creative input into story and character development. Regardless of what popular opinion may be–even that of professional critics–his creative direction and cinematographic sensibility is crap, _in my opinion_ based upon objective evaluation of the character evolution, plot resolution, coherence of staging and action, et cetera. You may differ, and that is _your opinion_, but I think he is one of the worst directors regularly getting work directing major motion pictures today. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/57 "2014-03-19T16:24:22Z")
Paul WS Anderson: _Mortal Kombat_, _Event Horizon_, _Alien vs Predator_, the _Resident Evil_ series (starring his wife Milla Jovovich), _Death Race_, _The Three Musketeers_ (also starring his wife). Seems that his only real talent is marrying Milla Jovovich. _Event Horizon_ wasn’t bad, but if that’s your high point… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/58 "2014-03-19T23:07:08Z")
Isn’t the joke that the WS stands for “Will Suck”? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/59 "2014-03-19T23:45:04Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Abrams may not have a writing or story credit, but the credited writers (Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman) are the creative team he has worked with since _Alias_ and _Fringe_, and his comments make it clear that he has substantial creative input into story and character development. Regardless of what popular opinion may be–even that of professional critics–his creative direction and cinematographic sensibility is crap, _in my opinion_ based upon objective evaluation of the character evolution, plot resolution, coherence of staging and action, et cetera. You may differ, and that is _your opinion_, but I think he is one of the worst directors regularly getting work directing major motion pictures today. That’s all fine and inarguable. (Your opinion is not something to debate.) Your assertion that his movies aren’t good “by any critical standard” is clearly false, though, in that the “critical standard” of “reviews by movie critics” ranks the movies very highly. So there is clearly _a_ critical standard by which the movies are considered quite good. I’d even go further and say that how well a movie is received by critics as the most common meaning of critical standard. Perhaps you meant to use a different term. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672/60 "2014-03-20T00:05:36Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > How is Nolan on this list? I mean he might not be great like a lot of people think, but compared to people like Tyler Perry, Seltzer and Friedburg, Raja Gosnell, Robert Rodriguez, Courtney Solomon, and Uwe Boll the man is a genius. Although, to be fair to Uwe Boll, most of his movies are independent and done on a pretty shoestring budget. Because this is the internet. Everyone is a special snowflake who is above the unwashed masses, and whatever the plebs like is absolute garbage. The brilliance of the netizens is that they see what the rubes do not. For example, did you know that Jessica Alba is hideous? It’s the pointy elbows. Threads like these allow people to assert their special snowflake status. Other such threads are “Who is considered beautiful but you don’t find attractive?” and “What great bands do you think are overrated?” The SDMB is an excellent source of these types of threads and responses, but it is by no means limited to the SDMB. It’s an internet thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-directors-who-just-arent-good-at-their-craft/683672.md?page=4)