# Hollywood films where the Americans lose **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468 "2019-08-10T18:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/1 "2019-08-10T18:50:23Z")
In almost all films the American heroes or Humans (when pitted against aliens ) win the battles. Usually the Russians or Brits are the baddies who invariably lose in the storyline. I can name only 2 films where the opposite is true. Avatar (where the residents of the planet prevail against the Earthlings/Americans) Mile 22 (where the Russians prevail in the plot) Any other such films to add to the list. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/2 "2019-08-10T19:04:55Z")
Reported ---
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/3 "2019-08-10T19:14:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Reported Seriously, for what? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/4 "2019-08-10T19:14:57Z")
_Black Hawk Down_ kind of straddles the fence: The movie was about a battle that could be described as a Pyrrhic victory or maybe outright defeat for the Americans in Mogadishu. 18 Americans killed, 75 wounded, and it was a disaster for the Clinton administration. Since the movie is based on real life, though, I don’t know if this is what you are looking for. I am assuming you mean entirely fictional, not-real, movies. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/5 "2019-08-10T19:15:11Z")
Yeah, wrong forum homie. I imagine that American films will convey victory as a patriotic bias. There must be foreign films that show Americans losing. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/6 "2019-08-10T19:26:05Z")
> [@Flander](#): > > There must be foreign films that show Americans losing. I understand it to be a common feature of North Korean films. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/7 "2019-08-10T20:10:54Z")
In _The Great Escape_, almost all the escapees are killed or recaptured. Charles Bronson, playing a Pole, and James Coburn, playing an Australian, are among the few who made it to safety. James Garner and Steve McQueen played Americans, but both were recaptured. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/8 "2019-08-10T20:22:24Z")
**Moderator Action** Moving thread from GQ to Cafe Society. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/9 "2019-08-10T20:34:06Z")
The Battle of Little Big Horn has been quite popular with Hollywood. from [Cultural depictions of George Armstrong Custer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_George_Armstrong_Custer) > [@](#): > > Custer’s Last Fight (a.k.a. Custer’s Last Raid) (1912) - with Francis Ford as Custer. > General Custer at Little Big Horn (a.k.a. Custer of Big Horn) (1926) - with John Beck as Custer. > Custer’s Last Stand (1936) - with Frank McGlynn as Custer. > The Plainsman (1936) - with John Miljan as Custer. > They Died with Their Boots On (1941) - with Errol Flynn as Custer. > Bugles in the Afternoon (1952) - with Sheb Wooley as Custer. > Sitting Bull (1954) - with Douglas Kennedy as Custer. > Tonka (a.k.a. A Horse Named Comanche) (1958) - with Britt Lomond as Custer. > The Great Sioux Massacre (1965) - with Philip Carey as Custer. The film depicts Custer as a bastion of tolerance whose efforts to secure fair treatment for the Indians leads to several confrontations with corrupt government officials. > Custer of the West (1967) - Robert Shaw depicts Custer as an Indian sympathizer, having disagreements with his superiors about fighting the Indians, but duty-bound as an officer of the U.S. Cavalry to enforce orders given to him. > The Legend of Custer (1968) - with Wayne Maunder as Custer. > Little Big Man (1970) - The film depicts Custer, played by Richard Mulligan, as a ruthless megalomaniac who massacres Indians in this revisionist Western. > Crazy Horse and Custer: The Untold Story (1990) - with Wayne Maunder as Custer. > Son of the Morning Star (1991) - with Gary Cole as Custer. > Crazy Horse (1996) - with Peter Horton as Custer. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/10 "2019-08-10T20:39:46Z")
Pearl Harbor > **[Attack on Pearl Harbor in popular culture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor_in_popular_culture)** > > The attack on Pearl Harbor has received substantial attention in popular culture in multiple media and cultural formats including film, architecture, memorial statues, non-fiction writing, historical writing, and historical fiction. Today, the USS Arizona Memorial on the island of Oahu honors the dead. Visitors to the memorial reach it via boats from the naval base at Pearl Harbor. The memorial was designed by Alfred Preis, and has a sagging center but strong and vigorous ends, expressing "ini... > [@](#): > > Remember Pearl Harbor (1942) A Republic Pictures B-movie, starring Don “Red” Barry, one of the first motion pictures to respond to the events.[3] > > Air Force, a 1943 propaganda film depicting the fate of the crew of the Mary-Ann, one of the B-17 Flying Fortress bombers that flew into Hickam Field during the attack. > > December 7th: The Movie, directed by John Ford for the U.S. Navy in 1943, is a film that recreates the attacks of the Japanese forces. Footage from this Hollywood recreation has been mistakenly used as “actual attack footage”, first by two different documentaries released in 1991 to mark the 50th anniversary of the attack, and again by television network CNN during an entertainment news report in 2001.[4][5] > > From Here to Eternity (1953), an adaptation of the James Jones novel set in Hawaii on the eve of the attack. > > In Harm’s Way (1965), director Otto Preminger’s adaptation of the James Bassett novel, which opens on December 6, 1941, in Hawaii, and depicts the attack from the point of view of the men of a ship able to leave the harbor. > > Storm Over the Pacific, also known as Hawai Middouei daikaikusen: Taiheiyo no arashi (Hawaii-Midway Battle of the Sea and Sky: Storm in the Pacific Ocean) and I Bombed Pearl Harbor (1961), produced by the Japanese studio Toho Company and starring Toshiro Mifune, tells the story of Japanese airmen who served in the Pearl Harbor Raid and the Battle of Midway. An edited version dubbed into English as I Bombed Pearl Harbor was given U.S. release in 1961.[3] > > The Time Tunnel, TV series; Season 1, Episode 4: The Day the Sky Fell In (1966).[6] > Tora! Tora! Tora! (1970), a Japan-U.S. coproduction about the attack is “meticulous”[7] in its approach to dissecting the situation leading up to the bombing. It depicts the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor from both American and Japanese points of view, with scrupulous attention to historical fact, including the U.S. use of Magic cryptanalysis. > > Pearl (1978), a TV miniseries, written by Stirling Silliphant, about events leading up to the attack. > > The Waltons TV series; Season 7, Episode 10: Day Of Infamy, aired on the 37th anniversary of the bombing on December 7, 1978. > > Voyagers! TV series; “Sneak Attack”, season 1, episode 14, original airdate February 13, 1983. The time travelers arrive at Pearl Harbor on December 7 and save the life of General Douglas MacArthur (who was actually in the Philippines at the time). > > The Winds of War, a novel by American writer Herman Wouk, was written between 1963 and 1971. The novel finishes in December 1941 with the aftermath of the attack. The TV miniseries based on the book was produced by Dan Curtis, airing in 1984. It starred Robert Mitchum and Ali MacGraw, with Ralph Bellamy as President Roosevelt. > > Pearl Harbor (2001), directed by Michael Bay, a love story set amidst the lead up to the attack and its aftermath. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/11 "2019-08-10T20:47:40Z")
> **[First Battle of Bull Run](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Bull_Run)** > > Department of Northeastern Virginia: > Department of Pennsylvania: > Army of the Potomac > [@](#): > > The battle forms the climax of the film Class of '61. It also appears in the first episode of the second season of the mini-series North and South, in the second episode of the first season of the mini-series How the West Was Won and in the first episode of the mini-series The Blue and the Gray. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/12 "2019-08-10T21:07:49Z")
Maximum Overdrive In the epilogue it’s revealed that the virus causing all of the machines to rebel against humans (only seen from the American perspective) was coming from a UFO which is destroyed by a Soviet weather satellite and restores order to the world. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/13 "2019-08-10T21:08:34Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > Seriously, for what? Possible wrong forum. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/14 "2019-08-10T22:15:18Z")
The Alamo. Not only did the Americans lose, one of them was played by John Wayne. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/15 "2019-08-10T22:29:36Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > The Battle of Little Big Horn has been quite popular with Hollywood. > from [Cultural depictions of George Armstrong Custer - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_George_Armstrong_Custer) Americans won this one, _nest-ce pa_? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/16 "2019-08-10T23:54:40Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > Seriously, for what? Your anti-American bias. Why do you hate America? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/17 "2019-08-10T23:59:39Z")
Tomorrow Never Dies. The American info mogul is defeated by the British agent. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/18 "2019-08-11T00:10:25Z")
The Quiet American, 2002, an underrated and under-appreciated film, portrays Americans in Vietnam as “losers,” that is, evildoers. Many of the above mentioned films, e.g. those about Custer and the Alamo, are more of the “we lost the battle but we won the war!” type, and so I’d suggest not really “Americans as losers” films ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/19 "2019-08-11T00:16:26Z")
_Wake Island_ was a movie about an American defeat. Of course, it was depicted as a heroic last stand but the Japanese clearly won the battle. And it was made in 1942, when the battle was still recent news. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/20 "2019-08-11T00:40:34Z")
In the 1978 version of _Invasion of the Body Snatchers_ the pod people take over, contrary to the 1956 original. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468.md?page=2)