# Hollywood films where the Americans lose **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468 "2019-08-10T18:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/21 "2019-08-11T00:49:41Z")
No one really wins in _Dr. Strangelove_ > [@Kropotkin](#): > > The Quiet American, 2002, an underrated and under-appreciated film, portrays Americans in Vietnam as “losers,” that is, evildoers. That is a really good movie! ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/22 "2019-08-11T01:00:55Z")
Day After Tomorrow Most of the population of the United States has to flee to Mexico as refugees after a devastating ecological disaster makes everything north of Florida a frozen wasteland (and yes they make as many ironic immigrant jokes they can) ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/23 "2019-08-11T02:34:23Z")
The third man. It’s a 1949 movie so I hope spoilers are ok: There are only 2 Americans in the movie. One gets dead and the other doesn’t get the girl. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/24 "2019-08-11T02:38:21Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > In _The Great Escape_, almost all the escapees are killed or recaptured. Charles Bronson, playing a Pole, and James Coburn, playing an Australian, are among the few who made it to safety. James Garner and Steve McQueen played Americans, but both were recaptured. But the Americans win by featuring in an escape they did not in fact participate in. At all. Screwed over are the two Norwegians and one Dutchman who actually were the three successful escapees. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/25 "2019-08-11T02:40:23Z")
“A Bridge Too Far” (1977) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/26 "2019-08-11T02:47:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > _Wake Island_ was a movie about an American defeat. Of course, it was depicted as a heroic last stand but the Japanese clearly won the battle. And it was made in 1942, when the battle was still recent news. \*\*\*Corregidor \*\*\*with John Wayne, and \*\*\*Bataan \*\*\*with Robert Taylor (both 1943). \*\*\*The Purple Heart \*\*\*with Dana Andrews (1944). With regard to the Battle of Little Big Horn, it should be noted that Native Americans were not considered US citizens at the time, nor would they be until 1924 (and then only those born in the United States). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/27 "2019-08-11T02:57:12Z")
_Platoon_. At the end the US base being defended by the platoon is overrun by the Vietnamese. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/28 "2019-08-11T04:45:16Z")
_A Fish Called Wanda_. I may be remembering this wrong, but it comes down to a fight between Kevin Kline and John Cleese, right? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/29 "2019-08-11T05:32:26Z")
The Cabin in the Woods. I won’t say any more except to say that the Americans do not win… nor do the Japanese, nor does anyone else. > [@Velocity](#): > > _Black Hawk Down_ kind of straddles the fence: The movie was about a battle that could be described as a Pyrrhic victory or maybe outright defeat for the Americans in Mogadishu. 18 Americans killed, 75 wounded, and it was a disaster for the Clinton administration. Since the movie is based on real life, though, I don’t know if this is what you are looking for. I am assuming you mean entirely fictional, not-real, movies. I know this is the traditional perspective on how The Day of the Rangers went down but considering that the Somalis went back to what was left of their homes with about 4,000 casualties, I’d say it was an absolute curb stomping by the US forces. I have said it before and I will say it again: they didn’t lose, they left. As I recall from the book, Super Six Four pilot Michael Durant was returned intact after a general explained to the Somalis that if he was not returned in pristine condition with the quickness, not a single stone would stand upon another stone in Mogadishu. Black Hawk Down tells the story of how these soldiers were caught off guard and under-prepared and still handed the whole city its ass. Hence why the locals don’t refer to it as “the day we beat the Rangers”. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/30 "2019-08-11T07:32:04Z")
_The Man in the High Castle_ (book and Amazon series) is set around the scenario of the aftermath of the Allies losing WWII. The US is divided into the Greater American Reich in the east, and the Japanese Pacific States in the west. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/31 "2019-08-11T13:52:58Z")
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid don’t do so well against the Bolivian army. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/32 "2019-08-11T15:32:39Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > But the Americans win by featuring in an escape they did not in fact participate in. At all. Not entirely true. There were American s in on the digging but they were transferred before the escape. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/33 "2019-08-11T15:36:31Z")
**E.T.** presumably (I surprisingly never actually saw it) escapes government agents. Not a film but on **Babylon 5** Earth is defeated by separatist and a coalition force of aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/34 "2019-08-11T16:01:19Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > The third man. It’s a 1949 movie so I hope spoilers are ok: > > There are only 2 Americans in the movie. One gets dead and the other doesn’t get the girl. It’s not a Hollywood movie, though. It’s British. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/35 "2019-08-11T16:11:24Z")
_Avengers: Infinity War_ if you don’t count _Endgame_. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/36 "2019-08-11T16:20:05Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > The Quiet American, 2002, an underrated and under-appreciated film, portrays Americans in Vietnam as “losers,” that is, evildoers. Many of the above mentioned films, e.g. those about Custer and the Alamo, are more of the “we lost the battle but we won the war!” type, and so I’d suggest not really “Americans as losers” films > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > No one really wins in _Dr. Strangelove_ > That is a really good movie! It’s a fantastic (and eerily prophetic) book, as well. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/37 "2019-08-11T16:30:45Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > It’s a fantastic (and eerily prophetic) book, as well. _ **Red Alert** _? As I recall, it bore little resemblace to Kubrick’s movie. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/38 "2019-08-11T16:34:58Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > In _The Great Escape_, almost all the escapees are killed or recaptured. Charles Bronson, playing a Pole, and James Coburn, playing an Australian, are among the few who made it to safety. James Garner and Steve McQueen played Americans, but both were recaptured. And all the Brits were killed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/39 "2019-08-11T16:42:48Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > And all the Brits were killed. As I recall, there were quite a few Brits who were recaptured and returned to the camp in “The Great Escape”. There are very few Vietnam movies where the Americans are “winners”. The only ones I can think of offhand are “The Green Berets”, and I suppose the movies where Sylvester Stallone singlehandedly defeats evil postwar Vietnamese. The trend in Hollywood movies in recent years is to depict Americans as, if not outright losers in international conflicts, Pyrrhic winners. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/40 "2019-08-11T17:24:35Z")
[quote=“Jackmannii, post:39, topic:838468”] As I recall, there were quite a few Brits who were recaptured and returned to the camp in “The Great Escape”./QUOTE] Of the 76 prisoners who escaped, 50 were machine-gunned _en masse_ in the movie. In real life, they were executed individually or in groups of two and three, on Hitler’s orders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468.md?page=3)