# Hollywood films where the Americans lose **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468 "2019-08-10T18:50:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/41 "2019-08-11T19:32:32Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > _The Man in the High Castle_ (book and Amazon series) is set around the scenario of the aftermath of the Allies losing WWII. The US is divided into the Greater American Reich in the east, and the Japanese Pacific States in the west. And the Neutral Zone in between. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/42 "2019-08-11T23:42:47Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > It’s not a Hollywood movie, though. It’s British. Correct and my bad. ---
**Author:** ![Rough\_Draft](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@Rough\_Draft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rough_Draft)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/43 "2019-08-13T17:19:13Z")
The U.S. Navy didn’t fare too well in _The Sand Pebbles_. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/44 "2019-08-13T17:55:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In the 1978 version of _Invasion of the Body Snatchers_ the pod people take over, contrary to the 1956 original. In the original version the _original_ ending had Kevin McCarthy running down the highway, yelling “You’re next!” to the motorists, who think he’s crazy. They tacked on a “happy” ending when he finally convinces people about the pod people only after test screenings showed the audience didn’t like the “downer” ending. > **[Invasion of the Body Snatchers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_the_Body_Snatchers)** > > Invasion of the Body Snatchers is a 1956 American science-fiction horror film produced by Walter Wanger, directed by Don Siegel, and starring Kevin McCarthy and Dana Wynter. The black-and-white film was shot in 2.00:1 Superscope and in the film noir style. Daniel Mainwaring adapted the screenplay from Jack Finney's 1954 science-fiction novel The Body Snatchers. The film was released by Allied Artists Pictures as a double feature with the British science-fiction film The Atomic Man (and in some Th... Finney’s novel, by the way, has a completely out-of-the-blue “happy” ending that’s just as unrealistic. The pods shoulda won. In Robert Heinlein’s _The Puppet Masters_ the humans win. His book predated Finney’s. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/45 "2019-08-13T18:01:43Z")
The Mouse that Roared. America is invaded by the smallest country in the world (The Duchy of Grand Fenwick) and loses. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/46 "2019-08-13T20:02:00Z")
I’ve seen the film, but it was too long ago to remember: do they make explicit in the film version of _The Handmaid’s Tale_ that Gilead defeated the United States? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/47 "2019-08-13T21:46:50Z")
Being a big generous about winning and losing, I submit: On The Beach A Day Without a Mexican CSA The Road ---
**Author:** ![Trancephalic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trancephalic/32/380_2.png) [@Trancephalic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trancephalic)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/48 "2019-08-14T02:02:04Z")
The entirety of the Planet of the Apes films. The directors cut of The Little Shop of Horrors remake. 1. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/49 "2019-08-14T13:21:12Z")
_No Way Out_ with Kevin Costner. > [@](#): > > Tom Farrell is a navy officer who gets posted at the Pentagon and is to report to the secretary of defense David Brice. He starts an affair with Susan Atwell not knowing that she is Brice’s mistress. When Susan is found dead, Tom is assigned to the case of finding the killer who is believed to be a KGB mole! Tom could soon become a suspect when a Polaroid negative of him was found at Susan’s place. He now has only a few hours to find the killer before the computer regenerates the photo. Turns out though Costner isn’t the killer, he is the KGB mole and his role goes undiscovered. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/50 "2019-08-14T13:54:45Z")
In the movie [We Were Soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Were_Soldiers) (and presumably also the book), the American forces win a big battle, but in the end it’s painted as a pretty pointless victory. The enemy commander surveys the aftermath and says “[the Americans] will think this was their victory…”; it’s based on [a real battle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ia_Drang), and the epilogue notes that as soon as the American troops were airlifted out, the North Vietnamese took control of the area again. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/51 "2019-08-14T14:23:42Z")
_[Glory](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097441/)_. The Union’s 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry (with Matthew Broderick and Denzel Washington) gets mowed down and fails to take the Confederates’ Fort Wagner. All the stars die. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/52 "2019-08-14T14:49:39Z")
> [@Kropotkin](#): > > The Quiet American, 2002, an underrated and under-appreciated film, portrays Americans in Vietnam as “losers,” that is, evildoers. Many of the above mentioned films, e.g. those about Custer and the Alamo, are more of the “we lost the battle but we won the war!” type, and so I’d suggest not really “Americans as losers” films _The Quiet American_ is a great film. I agree with you about the rest, too, and would include Peal Harbor-related movies as well. Part of the unspoken undercurrent of Pearl Harbor films is that the Americans only got their asses kicked because of the unhanded surprise tactics. The whole plot serves a larger narrative of American moral and military superiority and eventual victory. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/53 "2019-08-14T15:12:17Z")
It might be more interesting to narrow the scope to fictional movies. It’s one thing for a producer to sell a movie based on a historical US loss – “Hey, what are ya gonna do, we lost” – but it’s a much harder sell to say, “We made up this story and the US loses. Don’t worry, American audiences will love it.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/54 "2019-08-14T15:22:38Z")
There isn’t much left of the US after the \*Sharknado \*series. ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/55 "2019-08-14T15:46:34Z")
Episode “Replacements” from the HBO series Band of Brothers. The elite 101st Airborne attacks the Dutch village of Neunen, which is occupied by panzertruppen, and most definitely did not succeed in taking the town. ---
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/56 "2019-08-14T18:29:13Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > It might be more interesting to narrow the scope to fictional movies. It’s one thing for a producer to sell a movie based on a historical US loss – “Hey, what are ya gonna do, we lost” – but it’s a much harder sell to say, “We made up this story and the US loses. Don’t worry, American audiences will love it.” Thank you. This was my intention too. It is very rare for Hollywood to sanction a fictional film where the American characters end up losing. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/57 "2019-08-14T19:30:02Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > _[Glory](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097441/)_. The Union’s 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry (with Matthew Broderick and Denzel Washington) gets mowed down and fails to take the Confederates’ Fort Wagner. I don’t know if losing battles in otherwise winning wars really gets at the heart of what the OP was getting at. I mean, the Alamo was definitely a defeat, but was a heroic last stand in what ended up being a victorious campaign. Same with Civil War movies told from the Union side- we know how the Battle for Ft. Wagner ended up, but we also know that the Union won and that eventually black troops were accepted into the military, and that even later, were instrumental in gaining equality for all black people. I kind of think that movies like most of the Vietnam ones or maybe “The Day After” (albeit made for TV) are better examples, where the US loses outright. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/58 "2019-08-15T06:36:18Z")
There’s quite a number of movies where the terrorists /bad guys actually win/accomplish what they set out to do in the final part even if the heroes survive until the end. **Stone Cold** The hero defeats the bad guys but the terrorists literally accomplished pretty much everything they set out to do. **Unthinkable** The terrorists are able to detonate the last nuclear bomb before the heroes can find the location. **The Day The Earth Stood Still (Remake)** Alien leaves Earth but in the process detonates an EMP that disrupts all electricity in the world, ensuing a complete global collapse of society. **Transcendence** The movie ends with all technology being destroyed, ensuing a complete global collapse of society. ---
**Author:** ![BeagleJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5daacb/32.png) [@BeagleJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeagleJesus)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/59 "2019-08-15T12:12:53Z")
Kingsman - British super spy’s defeat evil American tech billionaire Sam Jackson from doing weird shit, that was poorly explained, to the world ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468/60 "2019-08-15T12:27:30Z")
_Fail-Safe_, in which the US Air Force nukes both Moscow \*and \*New York. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-films-where-the-americans-lose/838468.md?page=4)