# Hollywood Loves "Ugly Girl" Stories, Lacks Cojones To Use Real Ugly Girls **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2007, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860 "2007-01-21T18:43:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/21 "2007-01-21T21:15:03Z")
[QUOTE=astro] [Is this woman pretty?](http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5184/0008hq7h7vp.jpg) [/QUOTE] I certainly think she is, especially in the fresh-faced and innocent-looking way. However, I also think she looks a lot like how I’d picture Jessica Biel if she was photographed without makeup. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/22 "2007-01-21T21:25:32Z")
[QUOTE=astro] [Is this woman pretty?](http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5184/0008hq7h7vp.jpg) [/QUOTE] Yep. And when she’s done up, she’s breathtaking. But that’s a good example of someone who then got attacked as being horribly ugly, oh and for having a “moustache.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/23 "2007-01-21T21:51:54Z")
Is she someone famous? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/24 "2007-01-21T22:11:42Z")
One of the things I love about British films and TV shows is their willingness to use actors and actresses who _aren’t_ cookie-cutter gorgeous. For example, take [Helen Mirren](http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/Helen%20Mirren.jpg) in the TV series _Prime Suspect_ – that jutting nose, the lines in her face, the baggy eyes – there’s no way she’d fit into the American TV mold. She can also [look damned attractive](http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1890000/images/_1891654_brit_mirren150.jpg) and even [downright hot](http://revart.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/helen_mirren04_1.jpg). Check her out [at age 23](http://www.alanhoward.org.uk/troilusmirren.jpg), for example. I wonder whether she’d have been able to achieve such a magnificent career if she’d been an American actress with that distinctive face? ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/25 "2007-01-21T22:15:14Z")
Okay, not to go off on -too- much of a tangent here… I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. My question is then, what type of story needs to be told, or what type of choices need to be made in a movie, that would break this mold? I’m not saying ‘what would sell?’, what I’m saying is, ‘what sort of message / plot -does- the OP suggest?’ The reason I ask? I’d like to take a stab at writing something like that. I just don’t know what exactly it would be! ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/26 "2007-01-21T22:23:26Z")
Carrie was ugly. In the book, she was supposed to be both ugly and fat, but I guess they felt like that would be going overboard in the film. And as much as I love Cissy Spacek as an actress, the woman has a strange face. Definitely “Carrie-esque”. Another “ugly girl” movie with a non-ugly person, “In Her Shoes”. Toni Collett was supposed to be the ugly fat sister. While her face is definitely more handsome than pretty, the woman is hardly fat. She’s not even average. And I think she’s nicer to look at than Cameron Diaz, who’s cute when she smiles, down-right scary when she’s not. In fact, Toni Collet’s memorable roles are when she’s looking pretty, while I still can’t get Cameron’s ugly mug from _Being John Malkovitch_ out of my head. > [@Huerta88](#): > > While I’m not one to run around looking for new forms of victimhood to trumpet, I will acknowledge that what’s clunkily been called “lookism” is a reality in our society (all societies). It may be hard-wired. I’ve probably “suffered” from it at least to the extent that my profession has a lot of men in it, so any attractive female candidate is going to stick out like a sore thumb and probably enjoy an unconscious edge over me when being interviewed by a bunch of guys. But it goes both ways, though. If a woman looks _too_ good, she risks having people not take her too seriously. In Barbara Ehrenreich’s book “Bait and Switch”, she talks about how women are pressured by corporate culture to subdue their looks and “asexualize” themselves. I know this is true in the sciences, too. But I agree that lookism is more of a problem than we like to admit. The other day, I was telling a coworker that we’re hiring a new tech, a woman, and his first response was “Is she hot?” Yes, he was just cracking a joke, but it’s an irritating one because not only is it sexist, but it’s an admission that even in the workplace, looks are important. I wish looks weren’t that important, in the real world and in Hollywood, but I might as well wish for a sky full of rainbows and lollipops. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/27 "2007-01-21T23:00:22Z")
[QUOTE=ArrMatey!] Okay, not to go off on -too- much of a tangent here… I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. My question is then, what type of story needs to be told, or what type of choices need to be made in a movie, that would break this mold? I’m not saying ‘what would sell?’, what I’m saying is, ‘what sort of message / plot -does- the OP suggest?’ The reason I ask? I’d like to take a stab at writing something like that. I just don’t know what exactly it would be! [/QUOTE] I’m not sure I do either. One variant: Ugly girl played by ugly girl does a montage makeover, and is still pretty ugly. Another: Ugly girl is picked on, never really stops getting picked on. Another: Ugly girl picked on, perseveres, remains ugly but succeeds in other aspects of life. Another: Ugly girl picked on, develops winning personality, is everyone’s best friend, but still really ugly. Another: Ugly girl is unfairly picked on for her looks when she is young and nice, becomes old and embittered, and is then, quite fairly, ostracized for her behavior. I know, I know, none very commercial or embiggening of the human spirit. But all more realistic than the stuff complained about in my OP. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/28 "2007-01-22T01:24:27Z")
Damn. I hadn’t even realized that America Ferrera (who is incredibly HOT) was Ugly Betty. But Ugly Betty, really isn’t even ugly. She’s kind of cute. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/29 "2007-01-22T02:14:59Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Is she someone famous? Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] [Eva Longoria](http://www.eva-longoria-sexy-pictures.com/evalongoria005.jpg) of Desperate Houswives ---
**Author:** ![Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bites_when_provoked/32/18073_2.png) [@Bites\_When\_Provoked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bites_When_Provoked)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/30 "2007-01-22T02:37:41Z")
Either that’s an old pic then, or she looks much younger without the makeup. Not so ‘Hollywood’, sure, but a good 10 years younger. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/31 "2007-01-22T02:54:16Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Hollywood doesn’t have stones and is very very shallow. Then again, would the public watch a series with a star who was genuinely unattractive? I don’t know. [/QUOTE] In the case of Ugly Betty, why not? Ferrera isn’t ugly, but she’s not gorgeous, and has been significantly dorked up. This isn’t just a case of having her wear glasses; they really try to make her ugly. You could have used someone uglier than Ferrera in the same role and gotten the same effect, and the audience wouldn’t know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/32 "2007-01-22T02:55:51Z")
I did a thread here a long time ago about an idea I had for a movie - set in an alternate universe where the standard of beauty is a big, fat woman. Cast with all big, fat women (no fat suits allowed). One in which thin women are treated like big, fat women are treated today. I thought it was a fascinating thought experience, to try to imagine a movie with something other than our current standard used as the accepted standard of beauty. The bottom line remains, though, that nobody wants to look at unattractive people. People want to look at good-looking people. I think you could argue that that is fundamental in human nature. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/33 "2007-01-22T04:31:31Z")
[QUOTE=Lissa] That girl, Heather Matarazzo, is one of my favorite actresses _because_ she isn’t a conventional beauty. (Some may remember her from \*Saved! \*and as the little girl who testified in _Devil’s Advocate_.) [/QUOTE] I hear stuff like this a lot only to look at the picture and think to myself “Hey, she’s conventionally beautiful.” Is conventional beauty codeword for busty hollywood blonde or does it have some other meaning I’m not aware of? The Sucide Girls bill themselves as a venue for alternative beauty but their website is full of women with pleasant figures and faces. Other than the tattoos, piercings, and hair color most of them are conventially pretty. Marc ---
**Author:** ![nitetime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@nitetime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nitetime)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/34 "2007-01-22T05:27:38Z")
Not that many young, in shape people are seriously ugly. Granted, casting Anne Hathaway, who is stunningly beautiful even by Hollywood standards, as the “ugly girl” is going a bit too far. But for the most part, there isn’t a problem. The high school movies are really more about being an outcast than ugly anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/35 "2007-01-22T06:03:20Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] In the case of Ugly Betty, why not? Ferrera isn’t ugly, but she’s not gorgeous, and has been significantly dorked up. This isn’t just a case of having her wear glasses; they really try to make her ugly. You could have used someone uglier than Ferrera in the same role and gotten the same effect, and the audience wouldn’t know the difference. [/QUOTE] I’m just musing. Maybe they’d still watch if Ferrara didn’t have a decent body and facial structure under the awful clothes and braces, maybe they wouldn’t. [QUOTE=fessie] I can’t imagine many women would want to be known as “that ugly actress” unless they went to temporary extremes to achieve it, i.e. Charlize Theron. When Roger Ebert discussed Ellen Burstyn’s performance in _Requiem for a Dream_, he went out of his way to mention a scene that “shows what an attractive woman she actually is”. [/QUOTE] And in those cases, the stunt aspect of “getting ugly” gets them all kinds of praise and awards talk within the business - as if it takes enormous courage for a beautiful person to pretend to look like an average or ugly person in a movie, in exchange for a large amount of money and potential awards. 😉 I remember the endless chatter over Renee Zellwegger putting on some weight to play Bridget Jones, when all that weight did was bring her to an average weight and arguably make her more attractive than she normally is. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/36 "2007-01-22T12:56:09Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88] I don’t know enough about the UB narrative to know how it plays out – does she eventually get glam, or is she supposed to stay fake-ugly through the whole storyline? If the latter **why not hire a really ugly girl?** [/QUOTE] Since I know that Ugly Betty is just a remake of Betty la Fea, and assuming they’ve just translated the original scripts and not remade them, she did get a “remake” but she never, ever, came out all-glam. New glasses and later contacts, the braces came off (which they are supposed to do at some point, right?), new haircut, some makeup, better clothes… but it was always clear that she wasn’t spending three hours in front of the mirror every morning (unlike some of the other women on the show). Part of the point was that “doing yourself up works”, but also “is spending three hours in front of a mirror really worth it?” I know a woman whose mother has seen her without makeup once since she got married: the morning after her second delivery. For the first one, she actually got out of bed and painted up asap. Is that really worth it? For her yes, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/37 "2007-01-22T13:03:52Z")
Dang, missed the 5 minute mark! There’s a scene in Chicago where Roxy sings about becoming a celebrity; she says everybody will know and want “…my boobs, my nose!” Boobs? What boobs? Not when played by Renée Zellwegger! No boobs in sight at all, there! If what she’s got below the neck in that movie is supposed to be sexy, I’ll stick to being ugly, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/38 "2007-01-22T13:08:23Z")
Isn’t it a very common cliché in these films for the ugly girl to end up actually being quite pretty at the end, because she takes off her glasses/lets her hair down/smiles/stops wearing unflattering clothes, etc? If so, there’s your reason for Hollywood casting attractive actresses in the roles - they need to look attractive at the end of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/39 "2007-01-22T13:14:19Z")
Who was it that said “there’s no such thing as an ugly woman, just a woman who doesn’t know how to make the best of herself”? They were being slightly charitable, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860/40 "2007-01-22T14:03:56Z")
[QUOTE=astro] [Is this woman pretty?](http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5184/0008hq7h7vp.jpg) [/QUOTE] Good God, yes!!! Though I am amazed now that I’ve read the rest of the thread & see who she is! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hollywood-loves-ugly-girl-stories-lacks-cojones-to-use-real-ugly-girls/388860.md?page=3)