# Holy cow! Fox News rips into Swift Boat Veterans for Truth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 22, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969 "2004-08-22T14:30:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/21 "2004-08-22T18:41:45Z")
> [@furlibusea](#): > > I’m betting #3 myself. Ditto. The Swifties’ boat is sinking fast, and the rats are bailing while the bailing’s good. Never mind, of course, they were the ones who gave the Swifties a big “huzzah!” at the initial launch… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/22 "2004-08-22T18:55:33Z")
Okay, just go ahead and ignore half the story. I’ll just wait over here in the corner in case there are any questions. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/23 "2004-08-22T20:15:27Z")
The existence of the fighting in Laos and Cambodia was am official _secret_ at the time, **Lib** (even though I remember hearing about it, and I was just a little kid). It’s pretty well-known history by now that US forces there weren’t supposed to say anything about it. Of course Kerry would have been court-martialed for blabbing about it even if the actual charge were going into a . Of course the orders sending him there wouldn’t exist to be found out about, if they were on paper at all. It just can’t be proven either way, and it wouldn’t matter if it were. Why are you demanding evidence of a negative? Why call it “\*half \* the story”? Some need to seem fair-minded about it all, some need to show some equivalence between the 2 groups? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/24 "2004-08-22T20:59:23Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > Now it’s time for the Bush camp to denounce these horrible, awful emplo^H^H^H^H^Hvillains so they can show they’re the voice of calm reasoned debate. Still waiting on this one… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/25 "2004-08-22T21:00:17Z")
Secret? Kerry has touted the story for most of his career, including his melodramatic “seared — _seared!_ — into my memory” speech to Congress. Anyway, what’s the problem with evidence of a negative? Happens all the time in courts. You prove, for example, that you weren’t at the murder scene in South Charlotte by producing a receit for the time from a gas station in North Charlotte. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/26 "2004-08-22T21:07:28Z")
Its a trap, I tell you! A trap! They dig a partisan pit, cover it over with leaves and twigs of objective reporting, and you’re just scampering down the trail, on your way to Gramma’s house with your little basket and WHAM!.. “People are talking about John Kerry’s plan for a constitutional amendment forcing Eagle Scouts into gay marriages…We have with us the eminent political analyst and deranged hottie, Michelle Malkin, to discuss the implications…” ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/27 "2004-08-22T21:16:48Z")
The Swift Boat jackasses are just the first. It doesn’t matter that they’re eventually discredited, the damage is done in the first attacks. There are plenty of voters who hear the accusation and never hear the rest. Accusation: Page 1 headlines. Discrediting accusation: Page 6, small box. It’s an old political tactic, and I predict it will be used OFTEN in this campaign. Coming up: John Kerry is a secret homosexual with six illegitimate children. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/28 "2004-08-22T21:28:36Z")
Spot on! It worked, you can bet money on it! Now GeeDubya can _afford_ to get all righteous and indignant, he’s already wiped his ass with the Swifties, he’ll chuck them right into the toilet and flush. Tomorrow, day after, tops. Bet me. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/29 "2004-08-22T21:43:43Z")
No, no bet. It actually makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/30 "2004-08-22T21:59:19Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Shows like Hannity & Colmes are staggeringly weighted towards a pro-conservative bias, pitting bulldog Hannity against the moderate, milquetoast Mr. Colmes. But in my case, that works in Colmes’ favor. I’ve always liked him better. Hannity seems like such an egotist—always bragging, (it’s always about Hannity), always interrupting guests, while Colmes is the reasonable guy, polite, nice . . . Yep, I much prefer Colmes. Hannity is just pissing me off. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/31 "2004-08-22T23:11:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Spot on! It worked, you can bet money on it! Now GeeDubya can _afford_ to get all righteous and indignant, he’s already wiped his ass with the Swifties, he’ll chuck them right into the toilet and flush. Tomorrow, day after, tops. > > Bet me. What, bet against a sure thing? When you’ve no doubt taken a look at [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com) this afternoon? The link to today’s reporting on the Slime-the-Vote brouhaha is headlined[Debate Rages on Kerry War Record](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129689,00.html) and it looks pretty much favorable to Kerry. Heck, if you look at the related story links to the right of the text, five of the nine (the newest) appear positive for Kerry; three (the oldest) negative; and one neutral. Whether the text of those links bears out the headlines, I have still to explore\*, but yeppers, looks to me like Fox is beating a strategic retreat. \*Erm, actually, I at first typed “ignore”. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/32 "2004-08-22T23:25:23Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > yeppers, looks to me like Fox is beating a strategic retreat. But now [the guy who wears a purple heart for bouncing a grenade of a tree and injuring himself and his buddies](http://www.tedellis.net/dole-article.htm), AKA Bob Dole, has [weighed in against Kerry.](http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mymod/hdln/aprt/sty/*http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040822/ap_on_el_pr/war_politics) These are desperate times for the GOP. If they keep up with their current tactics, they’ll have us believing that _all_ decorated veterans are lying pondscum. If they retreat, they’ll end up looking like lying pondscum. Decisions, Decisions… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/33 "2004-08-22T23:47:14Z")
Surprises the crap out of me, as I expressed elsewhere. I figure the Bushiviks would grab the advantage they got out of all this and beat a speedy retreat, but it now appears they’ve decided to escalate. I don’t get it. This is either an amazingly smart move, (i.e., it forces Kerry to spend his federal campaign money answering attacks, while GeeDuyba keeps his because he’s not been nominated yet)…or flatout the stupidest move ever. Anyway, I was wrong. Again. Once in '68, and now this. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/34 "2004-08-23T01:05:49Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > What the H^H^H^H^Hell? 😃 Some old Unix keyboards didn’t have a backspace key. To erase something you just typed, you’d hit ^H, which is Ctrl-H in Unix-speak. It’s a way of expressing that you’re correcting yourself in mid-sentence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/35 "2004-08-23T01:29:29Z")
For there are some Unix, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some Unix, which were made Unix of men: and there be Unix, which have made themselves Unix for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Matthew 19:12 ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/36 "2004-08-23T01:45:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Good job, Chris! And to both veterans groups, fuck you very much for all this brouhaha about a tempest in a teapot when the imporant issue is about who will be the lesser tyrant. **Lib** , I think this particular debate does bring up the kind of issues that you’re worried about. Although it doesn’t equate to tyranny, the Bush campaign is using the lies of the SBVT to discredit their opponent. We’re talking about lying to the people to affect their votes - this is a clear **subversion of the democratic process**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/37 "2004-08-23T01:52:18Z")
So, it’s sort of like using a 1920’s style “death ray”? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/38 "2004-08-23T01:54:34Z")
dammint, I knew I should have clicked the “reply with quote” button. That was in response to **black455’s** post. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/39 "2004-08-23T03:02:27Z")
> [@](#): > > I figure the Bushiviks would grab the advantage they got out of all this and beat a speedy retreat, but it now appears they’ve decided to escalate. I don’t get it. And dear god, maybe the electorate has an ounce of brains, and maybe the rest of the world that isn’t dogmatically pro Republicans every time, and maybe there isn’t a vast right wing conspiracy to bring death and suffering to the world, and maybe, just maybe, you should use rational debate than stupid, ideological, tin-hat arguements against all things Republican. Don’t hurt the computer when your head finally explodes all over the god-damned keyboard. You’re acting just as stupidly dogmatic for your side as any die-hard Bush licker could ever dream to be. I’ll be voting for Kerry in 2004, but the Republicans will have to put up a real awesome fuck-nugget to get me to vote for Kerry in 2008. And it’s probably due to people like you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969/40 "2004-08-23T03:04:38Z")
Heh heh I’m never gonna live down that typo, am I? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-cow-fox-news-rips-into-swift-boat-veterans-for-truth/260969.md?page=3)