# HOLY CRAP! Anybody see the Pacers-Pistons game? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 20, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794 "2004-11-20T03:39:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/21 "2004-11-21T15:28:23Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > Not really sure. The last I heard the Detroit police have a picture of the guy from the video and they are showing it on local TV stations, trying to find the guy so they can arrest him. You would think that the Palace Management could check all the ticket sales for that section to get a basic data name base and start from there. Someone will eventually out this guy. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/22 "2004-11-21T15:42:22Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > You would think that the Palace Management could check all the ticket sales for that section to get a basic data name base and start from there. > > Someone will eventually out this guy. I read somewhere that the guy in question wasn’t seated in the lower area, he came down just to toss the beer, then high-tailed it. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/23 "2004-11-21T16:06:24Z")
I work at a television network that airs **nothing** but college sports. That’s right. 100% athletic events. In addition to the game discussed in this thread, other monitors in Research were showing various college football games. Yesterday not one but two college football games had fights. One was not much of a much, the other one was so filled with fighting that culmniated in a brawl all across the field and into the end zone, that when State Police rushed out onto the field to try to control things, they were bashed around too by players fighting and leaping at each other. It was the …what…South Carolina v.s. someone or other game yesterday ( Saturday ). Clemson? No coincidence that kids see NBA players beating up folks on Friday night and have at it on Saturday afternoon. They love to play like the big dogs, so they imitate all behaviors- negative or not. It isn’t boys will be boys. It isn’t even intense rivalry ( as was the case with the college football game down south ). It’s just a complete breakdown of self-control and it comes straight from the Pro Sports players. Despite my long-time participation in shooting sports events and sports anchor events, I am not a fan of any sport. I do however understand mob mentality. I’ve stood on the white sideline of two Super Bowl games. I know what the energy is in the middle of a game. It’s despicable that ANY athlete would cross the line from normal aggressive play ( football ain’t ice dancing, and that’s just fine. It’s not supposed to be ) and wander into the realm of assault and battery. That’s what it is, but I doubt anybody is gonna go to court on these events. That is wrong, sad and sends an awful message to kids playing sports across the country. Cartooniverse ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/24 "2004-11-21T16:12:04Z")
> [@ccwaterback](#): > > I read somewhere that the guy in question wasn’t seated in the lower area, he came down just to toss the beer, then high-tailed it. Yeah, maybe you read that in my post 😉 The guy who threw the beer was in a blue Pistons jersey, was wearing a baseball cap and had a goatee. Later, the cap came off, showing he was balding. There were good clear stills of his face; they’ll get him. As I recall from the repeated footage, while he did come in and tried to pull Artest away from the innocent guy, he didn’t exactly rush. But that may be my faulty memory. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/25 "2004-11-21T16:42:41Z")
Here are the fight videos from Ebaums world Second one is the most complete from player fighting to fan fighting. It’s a mess. [http://media.holla-front.com/nbafight.wmv](http://media.holla-front.com/nbafight.wmv) [http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2004/1120/3935750.200k.asx](http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2004/1120/3935750.200k.asx) ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/26 "2004-11-21T16:53:04Z")
[Here’s the guy they’re looking for.](http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3937083/detail.html) That’s who I thinking from the early ESPN reports. If he did indeed throw the cup in question, he was the biggest idiot (fan) at the game. IIRC from the video, he’s lucky that Artest locked on the wrong fan, as the guy in the white hat hardly moved his arms up from his side to defend himself as Artest charged up the seating. :wally I wonder if he’ll pipe up, or wait for someone to ID him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/27 "2004-11-21T16:57:30Z")
Artest, Jermaine O’Neal, Stephen Jackson, and Ben Wallace have all been suspended indefinitely. Word from the Pistons is that when the smoke clears, Artest will miss 30 games, O’Neal and Jackson will miss 20, and Ben Wallace will miss 5. I hope none of that was based on them punching fans _on_ the court; if the fan leaves the stands, he deserves everything he gets, IMHO. If it’s all for going _into_ the stands, then good for David Stern. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/28 "2004-11-21T16:59:22Z")
> [@Scruloose](#): > > [Here’s the guy they’re looking for.](http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3937083/detail.html) That’s who I thinking from the early ESPN reports. If he did indeed throw the cup in question, he was the biggest idiot (fan) at the game. > > IIRC from the video, he’s lucky that Artest locked on the wrong fan, as the guy in the white hat hardly moved his arms up from his side to defend himself as Artest charged up the seating. > > :wally > > I wonder if he’ll pipe up, or wait for someone to ID him. I’m not sure about this… the white-hat guy initially tried to pull Artest off the other guy. It was after Artest had been pulled back by a few people that Artest turned around and clocked _him_ too, at which point hat guy commenced a-swingin’. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/29 "2004-11-21T17:19:04Z")
> [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > I’m not sure about this… the white-hat guy initially tried to pull Artest off the other guy. It was after Artest had been pulled back by a few people that Artest turned around and clocked _him_ too, at which point hat guy commenced a-swingin’. Yeah, I rewatched the video **astro** posted, and he does make a grab at Artest as he rushes by, and then grabs him from the back as Artest started pounding the innocent bystander. And thanks for reconfirming the suspension numbers; I heard them once last night, and yet the papers and radio were still saying they were all suspended “indefinitely” this morning. I’d started to think I’d imagined it. ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/30 "2004-11-21T17:30:32Z")
Didn’t this happen in another NBA game a few years ago? Some fan shouted at a player on the court who had just lost his wife and daughter in a tragic accident or somesuch and the player went into the stands to beat the shit out of him? I vaguely remember thinking that _that_ guy had it commin’. This was just a mess! They are making millions of dollars to play a game and they can’t shrug off a little fan abuse? Please… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/31 "2004-11-21T17:42:44Z")
More and more it seems to me that those who operate athletic programs, professional or amateur, will accept thugs as participants as long as they have athletic skill. It can be argued that some of the fans are also thugs, but they are not employees of the athletic orgaization. I’ve pretty much given up on all organized sports because those who run them are money grabbers who expect municipalities to furnish them playing grounds and then pull out if the profits don’t meet their wishes. And many of those who participate are spoiled brats who have been pampered from the age of 9 years onward because the have unusual athletic skill. ---
**Author:** ![TWOTfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TWOTfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWOTfan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/32 "2004-11-21T17:47:31Z")
I don’t know. The newscast I watched showed the guy in the long sleeve white shirt as the thrower. (You can see him briefly trying to help the guy you are focusing on try to pull Artest off the other fan.) ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/33 "2004-11-21T17:51:14Z")
> [@My Darn Snake Legs](#): > > Didn’t this happen in another NBA game a few years ago? Some fan shouted at a player on the court who had just lost his wife and daughter in a tragic accident or somesuch and the player went into the stands to beat the shit out of him? That was Vernon Maxwell of the Rockets. According to Maxwell, the fan was heckling him with racist comments and about death of his daughter. According to the fan, it was just heckling about his (Maxwells) poor play performance. In that case, _if_ the fan was indeed talking trash about a dead daughter, then I can understand why Maxwell did what he did. That is _not_ to say I think it’s right or justified, just that I could see why Maxwell tripped off-line. And if I’m wrong about the white hatted fan, I withdraw my Wally. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/34 "2004-11-21T18:42:53Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Here are the fight videos from Ebaums world > > Second one is the most complete from player fighting to fan fighting. It’s a mess. > > [http://media.holla-front.com/nbafight.wmv](http://media.holla-front.com/nbafight.wmv) > > [http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2004/1120/3935750.200k.asx](http://mfile.akamai.com/12942/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2004/1120/3935750.200k.asx) I want to watch that second one, but I’m on dial-up. Does anyone know where I can find the whole thing, but something I can download first and then watch (as opposed to streaming)? ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/35 "2004-11-21T21:11:23Z")
Wallace was the first guy to throw something, he threw a rolled up towel at Artest while Artest was laying on the table. If you know anything about mob behavior, you will know that it’s a monkey-see-monkey-do mentality, punctuated by oh-yeah-I-can-do-something-crazier-than-that types, and so on, it feeds on itself. So I give a big wally to Wallace for being the first idiot to suggest throwing objects at the players is the thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/36 "2004-11-22T00:14:29Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > [The person attacked] wasn’t [the bottle thrower]. Foul somebody, get upset when said somebody over-reacts, flip out because of impact by plastic cup, rush into crowd, attack wrong person. I’m wondering whether the most stupid person in the building really was an audience member. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/37 "2004-11-22T12:20:42Z")
The NBA has [spoken](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=3&u=/ap/20041122/ap_on_sp_bk_ne/bkn_pacers_pistons_brawl) > [@](#): > > The NBA commissioner suspended Artest for the remainder of this season Sunday and disciplined eight other members of the Pacers and Pistons…All of the suspensions are without pay. Artest will lose approximately $5 million in salary…Stern also announced the league would review several procedures, from in-game security to alcohol sales ---
**Author:** ![kka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/54ee81/32.png) [@kka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kka)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/38 "2004-11-22T15:37:32Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Foul somebody, get upset when said somebody over-reacts, flip out because of impact by plastic cup, rush into crowd, attack wrong person. Did they ever determine who threw the initial cup? ---
**Author:** ![little\_bit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@little\_bit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/little_bit)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/39 "2004-11-22T16:05:07Z")
> [@kka](#): > > Did they ever determine who threw the initial cup? Yup. John Green of West Bloomfield, MI. He was supposed to show up for questioning on Sunday but failed to appear. You can read all the details [HERE](http://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/3938054/detail.html) ---
**Author:** ![little\_bit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@little\_bit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/little_bit)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794/40 "2004-11-22T16:08:34Z")
By the way, I love how they’re reviewing alchohol sales because of this. Beer at the Palace comes in clear plastic cups. The cup that was thrown was opaque & blue. It is how they serve soda. He was hit with a cup of icy cold pepsi, not beer. Maybe they should quit serving beverages, period. :rolleyes: It would make the bathroom lines shorter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-anybody-see-the-pacers-pistons-game/275794.md?page=1)