# Holy crap! Dont piss off the Russians! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 3, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023 "2004-09-03T21:25:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/1 "2004-09-03T21:25:09Z")
[The story](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/03/russia.school/index.html) And GW thinks he is tough on terror?? God I hope I am never a hostage in a terrorist plan in Russia! Those people are just nuts. Who the hell would storm a school like that? 200 dead?? Was that really their best plan? Nobody had anything else to offer except “lets just kill em all and let God sort them out”! I coudnt even begin to imagine the world of shit someone would be in here in the US if they did the same thing during a hostage crisis. wow… ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/2 "2004-09-03T21:31:30Z")
This ain’t the first time. I seem to recall a little opera house debacle as well… My web browser had a picture of a dead kid on it’s front page all morning long. Fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/3 "2004-09-03T21:35:19Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > Those people are just nuts. Who the hell would storm a school like that? 200 dead?? Was that really their best plan? Nobody had anything else to offer except “lets just kill em all and let God sort them out”! The article you linked says that the Russian commandos stormed the school _after_ explosives began going off inside. I consider that a pretty fair cue that matters have escalated. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/4 "2004-09-03T21:41:57Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > [The story](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/03/russia.school/index.html) > > And GW thinks he is tough on terror?? God I hope I am never a hostage in a terrorist plan in Russia! Those people are just nuts. Who the hell would storm a school like that? 200 dead?? Was that really their best plan? Nobody had anything else to offer except “lets just kill em all and let God sort them out”! > > I coudnt even begin to imagine the world of shit someone would be in here in the US if they did the same thing during a hostage crisis. wow… From the article: > [@CNN](#): > > The storming was not planned, Russia said. > > A local official from Russia’s FSB intelligence service told Russian media the troops had been ready for a long siege. > > However, the forces stormed the building around midday after Russian officials, under a cease-fire agreement with militants, tried to collect bodies lying outside the building. > > There was an explosion, hostages fled, and hostage-takers opened fire on the children and rescue workers. One of the workers was killed and another was wounded. > > Russian troops then opened fire at the rebels, and the battle began. Who’s really at fault, if this is true? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/5 "2004-09-03T21:42:42Z")
From [Yahoo:](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure_44) > [@](#): > > A captive who escaped the school told NTV television that a suicide bomber blew herself up in the gym. > > The chaotic climax to the standoff began around 1 p.m. Friday, when explosions collapsed part of the school roof and gunfire erupted from inside the building. Security forces moved in. > > Aslanbek Aslakhanov, Putin’s top aide on Chechnya, said security forces did not plan to storm the building, but were prompted to move by the first explosions. Witnesses said the militants opened fire on fleeing hostages and then began to escape themselves. It sounds like one of the suicide bombers probably dropped the dead man switch or something… ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/6 "2004-09-03T21:44:08Z")
> [@](#): > > stormed the school after explosives began going off inside. I saw that, but what I couldnt find is any independent verification of that. The only people I see saying that are Russian FSB. Im not saying they are lying, I just dont trust ‘the man’. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/7 "2004-09-03T21:44:24Z")
And WTF were the Russians supposed to do, anyway? Concede to the terrorists demands? Oh yeah, that’ll put a stop to terrorism. :rolleyes: The business with Chechnya might be wrong on Russia’s part, but the Chechens aren’t going to change anybody’s mind by taking children hostage, and threatening to kill them. The terrorists have fucked themselves, the hostages who’ve been killed or injured, and the folks living in Chechnya who just want to live their lives in peace without being fucked with. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/8 "2004-09-03T21:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > A captive who escaped the school told NTV television that a suicide bomber blew herself up in the gym. I stand corrected. Looks like I pulled the “pit” trigger to fast. Move along, nothing to see here… ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/9 "2004-09-03T21:49:11Z")
Dob, you might want to ease up on the Russians a bit, from here; [http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtmltype=topNews&storyID=6149517&pageNumber=1](http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtmltype=topNews&storyID=6149517&pageNumber=1) > [@](#): > > Russian authorities said they had been forced into an unplanned rescue operation when the hostage-takers opened fire on fleeing children. > > …snip… > > “No military action was planned. We were planning further talks,” said Valery Andreyev, regional head of Russia’s FSB security service. It seems like the Russian forces were forced to a react because the hostage takers started opening fire on the children as they took a chance to escape. Although from here; [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3625744.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3625744.stm) > [@](#): > > This looks like an improvised operation at best - and one which revealed several disturbing failures in contingency planning. It looks like the Russians just weren’t expecting anything like this. grey\_ideas ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/10 "2004-09-03T21:50:59Z")
Dob, Apologies, after posting my reply I see you’ve already retracted your ‘pitting’. grey\_ideas ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/11 "2004-09-03T21:55:50Z")
I’d like to thank you, **grey** for this little tidbit > [@](#): > > Russian authorities said they had been forced into an unplanned rescue operation when the hostage-takers opened fire on fleeing children. It gives one the _perfect_ response for when someone uses the old saw of “Won’t someone think of the children?” Now you can say, “Oh you mean like how the Chechen terrorists thought of the children they took hostage and murdered?” ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/12 "2004-09-03T21:59:05Z")
Whatever triggered the final assault, be it action on the side of the terrorists, hostages, or commandos (and keep in mind that all along we were being told that there were maybe 200-400 hostages, and around 20 terrorists, but now we are being told there may have been more than 1000 casualties), the blame for this tragedy rests squarely on the motherfucking shitlicking microcephalic asshole(s) who planned the takeover in the first place. Whoever the fuck you are, if you haven’t been killed already, I wish you to die in horrible pain that lasts 27 years and that during that time, the world uses your name(s) as an epithet for the most vile, depraved and disgusting thing we can think of. ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/13 "2004-09-03T22:08:29Z")
**Tuckerfan** I was working at home today and had the BBC World news on when this started. I couldn’t believe it when they said that the hostage-takers had opened fire on the kids when they took a chance to escape. Part of me always thinks that these people (the hostage-takers) will retain some decency and not open fire on children running away. Apparently when these kids dashed out of the school and the hostage-takers started opening fire on them, a number of the locals started firing back at the hostage-takers in the school to try and help the kids get away. This must have been a chaotic situation for the Russian forces to go into but I can’t see they had any other choice when the kids were being shot at. Just one more quote from the BBC ([http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3626190.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3626190.stm)) - actually a quote from the Russian forces commander > [@](#): > > The soldiers of the Special Forces took every step to secure the lives of the hostages and, thanks to their actions, many were saved. It looks like the Russians did their level best when it all kicked off. grey\_ideas ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/14 "2004-09-03T22:23:32Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > God I hope I am never a hostage in a terrorist plan in Russia! Those people are just nuts. Who the hell would storm a school like that?. Or in a religious cult in the US in Waco, Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/15 "2004-09-03T22:29:25Z")
It looks as though the special forces guys tried to blow a hole in the wall of the sports hall, but that it went wrong and was contributory to the roof collapse that killed some of the people inside. But their hand was forced; they weren’t planning to assault the terrorists at that moment - it was provoked by the outbreak of gunfire on escapees. The whole thing is so very very tragic, but it was pretty much guaranteed not to end in any sort of nice way. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/16 "2004-09-03T22:32:19Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Whatever triggered the final assault, be it action on the side of the terrorists, hostages, or commandos (and keep in mind that all along we were being told that there were maybe 200-400 hostages, and around 20 terrorists, but now we are being told there may have been more than 1000 casualties), **the blame for this tragedy rests squarely on the motherfucking shitlicking microcephalic asshole(s) who planned the takeover in the first place.** Bolding mine, and well said. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/17 "2004-09-03T22:33:51Z")
Fuck, just fuck. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/18 "2004-09-03T23:23:30Z")
The Chechen MUSLIM terrorists (you never hear it on the news, but yes, they are Muslims) are behaving in the typical Muslim terrorist fashion: putting children in harm’s way, just like the Arabs in Israel who attack kids coming home from school, invade Jews’ houses and shoot their children, and send their own sons and daughters out to blow themselves up while the cowardly parents collect stipends from the Saudi government. You can’t coexist with savages. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/19 "2004-09-03T23:39:31Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Or in a religious cult in the US in Waco, Texas. Yeah, cuz that wasn’t just a nearly unique situation. Since that kind of poor judgment ALWAYS occurs–I mean, there’s Ruby Ridge, and–and–and–well, I’m sure there are more, only the government is covering up. Cuz those TWO instances PROVE that it’s a standing policy of the government to shoot first and ask questions later. If those two instances seem to stand out because they appear to be exceptions to the vast number of FBI situations, that only because those were the only two where the coverup didn’t work. C’mon, John, we got target practice and a Camo Fashion Show before the Militia picnic. ---
**Author:** ![Hooch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9fc29f/32.png) [@Hooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooch)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2004, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023/20 "2004-09-03T23:58:10Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > [The story](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/03/russia.school/index.html) > > And GW thinks he is tough on terror?? God I hope I am never a hostage in a terrorist plan in Russia! Those people are just nuts. Who the hell would storm a school like that? 200 dead?? Where the hell do people like you come from? Are you stupid or did you just not see the part about them setting of explosives and starting to kill the hostages? Yeah, I suppose just waiting it out would have been a better option. All righty then. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-dont-piss-off-the-russians/263023.md?page=2)