# Holy Crap! Just finished watching AOTC. Dont open if you havent seen yet..SPOILERS **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2002, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356 "2002-05-16T08:23:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/181 "2002-05-21T20:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jman \* > \*\*I find it odd that a guy who registered over a year and 4 months ago, by the name of **Dooku** is writing a post about Dooku really being a good guy. šŸ™‚ > > Jman \*\* ::waves hand:: **JMan** , you do _not_ find that odd. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/182 "2002-05-21T21:10:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Technically we have no proof so far of whether Palpatine is trully evil, or just a misguided zealot who has a ā€œends justify the meansā€ view of a strong effective government. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Still you may have a point - if only in the sense that the Republic _had_ to fall, in order to rise again, reinvigorated. Sort of like the phoenix, with the Empire playing the part of the pyre. This does not excuse Palpatine and co.; it only lets Lucas show us that the galaxy is actually better off at the end of the story than at the beginning. You know, make the whole thing worth it. P.S. Iā€™ve always been amused at the term ā€œTuscan Raidersā€. In my imagination, I see bands of roving Florentines, marauding across the Italian countryside. Possibly on Vespas. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/183 "2002-05-21T21:24:17Z")
Just curious - whatā€™s the origin of ā€œTuscan Raidersā€? I remember knowing that Sand People were called Tuscan Raiders before TPM, but I canā€™t recall any dialog from the earlier movies in which they were refferred to as such. Which means that now I have no idea why I already knew they were called ā€œTuscan Raidersā€ - is that what the labeling on the action figure packages called them? I never read any of the books, so that wouldnā€™t be how I knew thatā€¦ ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/184 "2002-05-21T21:28:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*P.S. Iā€™ve always been amused at the term ā€œTuscan Raidersā€. In my imagination, I see bands of roving Florentines, marauding across the Italian countryside. Possibly on Vespas. \*\* Thatā€™s pretty funnyā€¦but you _do_ know itā€™s really ā€œTuskenā€ (as in ā€œwith tusksā€), right? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/185 "2002-05-21T21:50:21Z")
Yeah, I know. It just amuses me to think of them actually being from Tuscany. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/186 "2002-05-21T22:09:04Z")
Right, carry on then! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/187 "2002-05-22T01:57:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Technically we have no proof so far of whether Palpatine is trully evil, or just a misguided zealot who has a ā€œends justify the meansā€ view of a strong effective government. We have seen the the republic of episode I and II is so beuracratic and ineffectual that it is concievable that a responsible minded man might see reason to to overthrow it to get a governnment that works. Well there is the whole wiping out of the Jedi thing :D. Anyone else thought it cool at the end of the movie, when the clones were being loaded onto ships with Palpatine looking over themā€¦ and the ā€˜Imperial Marchā€™ started playing :D. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/188 "2002-05-22T04:40:58Z")
Iā€™ve now seen the movie twice, and remembered a couple of the other little things I noticed: When Dooku flies off to his cave on that little flying thing, he reminded me of Serpentor from GI Joe. Wouldnā€™t falling onto sand and rolling around several times have been really painful in light of the huge gaping slashes across Amidalaā€™s back? If Palpatine and Dooku are playing both sides and getting them to go to war, why did they erase Kamino from the archives? Did they plan on the Jedi tracking Jango down, at the right time, keeping the whole project secret throughout its duration until needed? They said Syphodias died about ten years before. Wouldnā€™t that be about the time of TPM? Coincidence? Itā€™s getting harder to think of Master Yoda as being so incredibly wise when we all know that the whole Republic collapses on his watch. I really really want my own clone army. I promise not to use it for evil. Yodaā€™s style of talking is oddly appropriate to giving military orders, where the direct object often precedes the verb. What the heck are the Trade Federation and the rest of the separatists doing designing a Death Star. Considering that the Republic has no army during the whole design phase of the project, it seems kind of overkill. Apparently, as with the Empire, occupational safety was not much of a concern in the Republic. I mean, shouldnā€™t it be pretty obvious that retracting walkways should remain open if thereā€™s someone on them? And have handrails? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/189 "2002-05-22T05:23:09Z")
Maybe Yodaā€™s native language is Latin. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/190 "2002-05-22T07:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Technically we have no proof so far of whether Palpatine is trully evil, or just a misguided zealot who has a ā€œends justify the meansā€ view of a strong effective government. I dunno about that. It would have been one thing to organize the ā€œWe Need Strong Leadershipā€ Party or set up the Palpatine for Chancellor Exploratory Committee. But at this point, the guyā€™s started, what, two whole wars? All by himself, and for no reason except to pave the way for his rise to absolute power. Seriously, anyone willing to use means that twisted, devious, manipulative, and utterly callous regarding humanoid and non-humanoid life, I donā€™t think I really care what his ā€œendsā€ are. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/191 "2002-05-22T12:15:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > **I really really want my own clone army. I promise not to use it for evil.** No. Remember when your mother and I bought you that army of Ravening Mutants? ā€œPleeeeeeasse can I have an army of Ravening Mutantsā€ you said ā€œI promise Iā€™ll feed 'em and take 'em for walks, and clean up after them and I _wonā€™t_ use 'em for evil! I promise! Plleeeeaaase!ā€ Butā€¦ Who had to take them for a walk? Who had to feed and water them? Who had to clean up after them? Who had to repair the holes in the carpet made by their acid drool? And you _used_ your army of Ravening Mutants to terrorize the country AND you went on a rampage of evil AND you stayed out after curfew. Iā€™m sorry, young man. Until you show that you can care for your armies, and that you can use them responsibly, no more armies for you! Papa Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/192 "2002-05-22T14:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sturmhauke \* > \*\*Maybe Yodaā€™s native language is Latin. \*\* All I know is that Iā€™m going to start referring to him as the Eddie Gaedel of the Jedi. The reason he didnā€™t get killed by Dooku is because he has a non-existant strikezone. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/193 "2002-05-22T19:13:14Z")
I just saw it last night, and I liked it, overall: -Anakin: very much a whiny teenager, though one who is called ā€œAnnieā€ by everybody and has to control his emotions, be around an attractive young Senator who wears revealing clothes, learn to control the Force, AND has Palpatine whispering to him, on top of worrying about his mother? No wonder heā€™s gonna go evil! -Padme: The love sequences were groaners to me, though she was nice to look at. Didnā€™t do her best work here. -Obi Wan: Did a good job. Wonder where he picks up ā€œBenā€? -Yoda: Very fun, but too short. I thought he strained too much in moving the things Dooku threw at him. -Dooku: did a fine job, as did Palpatine. Itā€™s good to see that Christopher Lee is finally getting some quality work. -Everybody else: no complaints here Perhaps the cloners didnā€™t have such good stuff to use the second time around and thatā€™s why the later stormtroopers were such terrible shots? And if Yoda was so good with the Force, why not just move Dooku instead of fighting him? You donā€™t see people moving people with it, except Darth later.Was that something he thought up on his own? Droids, yes. But not people. I wonder if Dooku/Tyrannus knows what kind of job security the Sith have? Itā€™s not very good; either kill your master or be replaced. I donā€™t think thereā€™s much chance of him getting the drop on Palpatine. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/194 "2002-05-22T19:20:07Z")
Sam, Darth Maul force-moved Obi-Wan at the end of TPM. Iā€™m guessing that you have to catch a Jedi off-guard to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Gartog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/22d042/32.png) [@Gartog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gartog)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/195 "2002-05-22T19:36:55Z")
I assume (Yeah, Yeah Ass-U Me I know) The reason that Yoda didnā€™t use the Force to move Dooku, was because Dooku could deflect the Force, but itā€™s harder to deflect a big heavy lump. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/196 "2002-05-22T19:54:31Z")
> [@](#): > > If Palpatine and Dooku are playing both sides and getting them to go to war, why did they erase Kamino from the archives? Did they plan on the Jedi tracking Jango down, at the right time, keeping the whole project secret throughout its duration until needed? Well I think that saw in the future that Obi-Wan would discover it, and that the erasing of Kamino from the archives would make him even more suspicious of everything and really, really want to see where it was :D. Or, the other explination, is that they didnā€™t see that in the future, and basically erased Kamino so their clone army would remain secret and so the drones could kill the Jedi (which the Sith would have to do anyway), and then the clone army could destroy the dronesā€¦ making the rebellion and the Jedi dissapear at once. > [@](#): > > They said Syphodias died about ten years before. Wouldnā€™t that be about the time of TPM? Coincidence? Iā€™m thinking that they thought Maul was the Lord. And that he was Syphodias. > [@](#): > > What the heck are the Trade Federation and the rest of the separatists doing designing a Death Star. Considering that the Republic has no army during the whole design phase of the project, it seems kind of overkill. It would give the seperatists a lot of power. They had to anticipate that the Republic would form an army. With a Death Star, theyā€™d be invunerable (basically) and then the Republic would have to give in. It was one of those few scenes that actually elicited a _gasp_ from me :D. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/197 "2002-05-22T20:04:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Or, the other explination, is that they didnā€™t see that in the future, and basically erased Kamino so their clone army would remain secret and so the drones could kill the Jedi (which the Sith would have to do anyway), and then the clone army could destroy the dronesā€¦ making the rebellion and the Jedi dissapear at once. Iā€™ll side along with this. I think that the Jedi use their database to guide their ā€œseeingā€. If itā€™s not in the database, they canā€™t see the planetā€™s future, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/198 "2002-05-22T23:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > \*\*Technically we have no proof so far of whether Palpatine is trully evil, or just a misguided zealot who has a ā€œends justify the meansā€ view of a strong effective government. We have seen the the republic of episode I and II is so beuracratic and ineffectual that it is concievable that a responsible minded man might see reason to to overthrow it to get a governnment that works. \*\* Well, actually, I think part of the point is that ā€œends justifying meansā€ is a rather evil philosophy. Lucas isnā€™t even _trying_ to conceal the World War II references. Palpatine is ā€œChancellorā€ ā€“ that was Hitlerā€™s title when he was elected. He uses fear to get himself ā€œemergency powers,ā€ as Hitler did. Palpatine is guilty of war crimes, in the extreme. How many people died on Alderaan? How many people die during his rise to power? And someone else mentioned the Gunguns. Basically, the story is an argument for democracy over dictatorship. Palpatine uses the rhetoric of fascists. Strong leaders. Quick, decisive action. He creates fear and agitates conflicts, turns people against one another. Heā€™s consciously engineering escalating violence. That qualifies as evil in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/199 "2002-05-24T04:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > Also, when Padme falls off the ship and lands in the sand she is knocked out cold. When the stormtrooper/clone comes, and she wakes up, the first thing she says is ā€œWe have to get to the hangarā€. > > How does she know that Dooku has gone to a hangar? > > By the time she wakes up, Dooku, Obi Wan and Anakin are all miles away and she was unconscious the whole time. My theory? Sheā€™s got Force potential. They shouldā€™ve thrown her a lightsaber, when they threw new ones to Obi and Ani. šŸ†’ Of course, sheā€™s ā€œtoo oldā€ to train even if thatā€™s right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356/200 "2002-05-24T07:29:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolfman \* > **Why is the empire evil? Because they do things like blow up Alderan.** Stop right there. Alderaan isnā€™t a military base, or a spaceyard, or an industrial region, but an ENTIRE GODDAMN PLANET with billions of people on it, most of whom are probably civilians. This isnā€™t like nuking Hiroshima, itā€™s like sinking all of Japan into the ocean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-crap-just-finished-watching-aotc-dont-open-if-you-havent-seen-yet-spoilers/109356.md?page=11)