# Holy Freaking Crap Guys, How Hard is it to Accept People? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 28, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965 "2011-04-28T00:02:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/21 "2011-04-28T03:52:21Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I have the right to say whatever I like. Likewise, everyone else has the right to tell you you’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/22 "2011-04-28T04:34:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It atheism the only philosophical position it is OK to condemn? I am not condemning any philosophy, not even atheism. I am condemning your view that only you can possibly ever be correct, and anyone who disagrees with you is inherently dumb and evil. Even on matters where I agree with you completely, I find your delivery appalling. > [@](#): > > And you may not like it, but “I’m right and they aren’t” is a perfectly valid defense when the facts back you up. All the facts are on my side; they can’t say the same. You do realize that anyone on the other side of the debate can say exactly the same thing, and he would be just as wrong as you were? Who gave you and you alone the right to interpret the facts? > [@ExcitedIdiot](#): > > It doesn’t sound like you’re debating issues here. You are hating the players. What do you mean? I have nothing against Der Trihs personally (except that his name is hard to spell. Trihs, thris, the get confused on my iPad.) so what exactly are you saying? > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, sometimes it’s fact. Objective reality is what it is. But objective reality needs to be interpreted to make sense. And no matter what you may think, your interpretation can be right or wrong, just like mine, or Obama’s, or Cecil Jacob’s, or anyone else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/23 "2011-04-28T04:41:31Z")
EDIT: (missed edit window) And as to your references to nazism or communism, I do condemn them. But when I do, I do not simply say “authoritarian communist societies are inherently evil and inferior to democratic capitalist societies”. Instead, I deliver a (hopefully) convincing argument about the virtues of capitalism and democracy, and the failings of communism. To clarify, I do not simply say “I am right by virtue of being me”, I make a coherent argument. All I ask is that you do the same, especially since I think that you do have good, valuable opinions to shnare. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/24 "2011-04-28T04:57:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Likewise, everyone else has the right to tell you you’re full of shit. Gosh, **Guin** , maybe _this_ will be the post that gets through to him! Fingers crossed!! On the other hand, my dim-witted friend, _I’d_ never have to suffer seeing a **DT** post if certain other posters could refrain from quoting him. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/25 "2011-04-28T05:52:51Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why the hell should anyone care about someone’s sexuality? Yes indeed, for instance I don’t give a shit about gay people’s sexuality, so why the hell can’t they stop bringing it forward ? Like, “Hello, I’m Mike and I’m gay”. Do I fucking say “Hello, I’m Khaki and I’m straight” :rolleyes: ? ---
**Author:** ![Sapphirany](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Sapphirany](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapphirany)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/26 "2011-04-28T06:03:13Z")
I think your first post makes sense =) ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/27 "2011-04-28T06:06:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > This is EXACTLY what I was talking about. You are so set in your anti-religious fervor that you act exactly like those fanatics you hate. A racist would say that the quality of “being black” is inherently evil; one of those picketers you hate so much would say the same about gays. You have NO right to say that all religion is inherently evil and harmful. Some brands of religion are, I agree. But your brand of Atheism is JUST as evil and harmful. Oh my God, how original. Atheists are just the same as religious people. Not that I’d expect any more from someone so fucking stupid that they think “So Obama finally lets everyone see his birth certificate. Why the hell did he refuse to show it for this long? Who knows.” And BTW, I have every right to to say all religions are inherently evil. I don’t say that and I don’t think that either, but I have every right to say it because we have a little thing called the Bill of Rights. Obama is hiding it, but if you look hard enough you might find a copy that someone can read to you. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/28 "2011-04-28T06:49:49Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Oh my God, how original. Atheists are just the same as religious people. Not that I’d expect any more from someone so fucking stupid that they think “So Obama finally lets everyone see his birth certificate. Why the hell did he refuse to show it for this long? Who knows.” > > And BTW, I have every right to to say all religions are inherently evil. I don’t say that and I don’t think that either, but I have every right to say it because we have a little thing called the Bill of Rights. Obama is hiding it, but if you look hard enough you might find a copy that someone can read to you. > > Moron. Perfect example of what I was talking about. Seriously? Did you even read what I posted? You criticize me for criticizing Obama. Well yes, I did that, but if you read my post, what I said was “things would have been easier if Obama released the birth certificate earlier, but there’s absolutely NO reason for people to demand that”. I don’t know how you turned that into “about time that damn bastard put that out there!” And who the fuck said that he doesn’t have the right to say whatever he wants? I just said that he doesn’t have the EXCLUSIVE right to interpret facts Before you go around insulting people, read the goddamn post, will ya? Then again, you just proved my point, so maybe I should be thanking you. Oh, and as for your smug little comment about how I’m equating atheists with theists? That is not what I’m doing. I’m equating disrespectful atheist assholes with disrespectful religious assholes. And just for the record, if someone showed up in this thread and started smearing atheists, I’d defend atheists, too. This has nothing to do with my stance on the issue of religion, and everything to do with my stance on how to treat other people during a debate. @Sapphirany: thanks! @Khaki: I’m not really familiar with your posting style, but I’m assuming that was a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/29 "2011-04-28T07:15:10Z")
You sound like a really good guy, **Babale**. Therefore you don’t belong in this forum. Seriously. There is so much intolerance and hatred and dishonesty aimed at anyone not toeing the party line around here that to feel like you do is just pissing in the wind. To paraphrase Don McLean, the Pit is not made for one as good as you. (Now sit back and relax, and watch what kind of abuse that last line brings. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/30 "2011-04-28T07:38:11Z")
Seeing as this place is the most tolerant place I’ve seen on the net, it must be nearly impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/31 "2011-04-28T09:01:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I am not condemning any philosophy, not even atheism. I am condemning your view that only you can possibly ever be correct, and anyone who disagrees with you is inherently dumb and evil. _Religion_ is dumb and evil. Blatantly so. Like it or not, not everything in the world is a matter of opinion; some arguments have a right and wrong side, and religion is the wrong side. And all the self righteous persecution fantasies in the world won’t make religion any less stupid. After all, that’s why you aren’t trying to defend religion but bashing me instead. > [@Babale](#): > > You do realize that anyone on the other side of the debate can say exactly the same thing, and he would be just as wrong as you were? Who gave you and you alone the right to interpret the facts? More nonsense. The people on the other side of the argument _directly contradict reality_. They deny known facts, deny logic, and make claims that have no basis in fact. I on the other hand am saying they should stop making up nonsense; _I’m_ not the one whose entire worldview rests on denying reality. I’m not the one who has to say “Oh, but logic and the laws of physics _just don’t count_” to defend my opinions. There’s no equivalence between the sides. > [@Babale](#): > > EDIT: (missed edit window) And as to your references to nazism or communism, I do condemn them. But when I do, I do not simply say “authoritarian communist societies are inherently evil and inferior to democratic capitalist societies”. Instead, I deliver a (hopefully) convincing argument about the virtues of capitalism and democracy, and the failings of communism. As do I about religion, all the time. And your own logic makes you a bigot; if condemning religion is bigoted, then so is condemning communism or Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/32 "2011-04-28T09:10:42Z")
> [@Cort](#): > > Speaking of the birth certificate, it seems that Obama’s decision to release it has only made matters worse. Apparently, if you download the PDF directly from [www.whitehouse.gov](http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate)[ and open it in Adobe Illustrator, it opens as a document in numerous layers. In other words, it’s a composite image. Click a button, and all the dates and signatures just vanish. Try it yourself. > > [URL=“[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7oi2qfxlY&feature=youtu.be](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7oi2qfxlY&feature=youtu.be)”]Here’s a YouTube video of someone else doing it]([http://www.whitehouse.gov](http://www.whitehouse.gov)). > > Now, I’ve no idea why the birth certificate is compiled like that, and I’d appreciate some clarification, but suffice it to say I doubt it’s part of a 50 year old plot to stick a secret…whatever-the-hell-these-'tards-think-Obama-is, in the Whitehouse. Still, this will only make the birthers more screechy and angry. Bad move. > **[PDF Layers in Obama’s Birth Certificate | National Review](https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/pdf-layers-obamas-birth-certificate-nathan-goulding/)** > > We have received several e-mails today calling into question the validity of the PDF that the White House released, namely that there are embedded layers in the document. There are now several othe… It’s moot though. Birthers would dig into a pure bitmap and find clear evidence that the pixels were altered. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/33 "2011-04-28T09:25:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _Religion_ is dumb and evil. Once again, so’s your face. It just works with everything. It’s pretty much the perfect insult. > [@](#): > > And your own logic makes you a bigot; if condemning religion is bigoted, then so is condemning communism or Nazism. Wow. From zero to nazi in five posts. This years model of Der Trihs is even faster than last years. Still got the same neck equipped airbag too. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/34 "2011-04-28T11:34:14Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Once again, so’s your face. > > It just works with everything. It’s pretty much the perfect insult. A truly pathetic argument. My face doesn’t break physical law, nor does it kill people. All your argument does is underline what I’ve been saying; that religion is so _blatantly stupid_ as to be indefensible, so instead you bash me to distract from that fact. > [@Harborwolf](#): > > Wow. From zero to nazi in five posts. This years model of Der Trihs is even faster than last years. Still got the same neck equipped airbag too. It’s a very straightforward argument. If condemning people for what they believe is bigoted, then disapproving of Nazism is bigoted. But if condemning people for Nazism _isn’t_ bigoted, that is an admission that you _can_ condemn people for their beliefs without being a bigot. Which is important, given how accusing people of being bigots for disapproving of their baseless and vicious beliefs has become a staple lie of the Right and the believers. It conveniently insulates them from all criticism, and they naturally are complete hypocrites who don’t hesitate to condemn _other_ people for what _they_ believe. And complaining about people mentioning the Nazis is just an old, tired and dishonest method of deflecting arguments at this point; Godwin’s Law is long obsolete. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/35 "2011-04-28T12:30:55Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It atheism the only philosophical position it is OK to condemn? Yes, they should all be killed. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/36 "2011-04-28T13:26:49Z")
I cant defend religion because you haven’t made any arguments against it, you joist said “it’s dumb”. And when we ask you WHY, all you say is “is too!”. Pretty much the only real argument you made is that it’s based on false facts. You say that theres no evidence; one could counter “the fact that the world exists is evidence of something that kicked off the creation of the universe. Of all the theories, religion makes sense to me”. And I never attacked you. I attacked the way you argue because that’s what this thread is about, not religion; but I never attacked you personally. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/37 "2011-04-28T14:04:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You criticize me for criticizing Obama. Well yes, I did that, but if you read my post, what I said was “things would have been easier if Obama released the birth certificate earlier, but there’s absolutely NO reason for people to demand that”. I don’t know how you turned that into "about time that damn bastard put that out It’s amazing how much stupidity you can put in such a short post. Obama “released” what Hawaii gives everyone born in Hawaii: a certificate of live birth. The “birth certificate” is in a bound book in the state archives. Obama could not “release” it because he didn’t have it. Numerous people looked at the original and said “yup, it’s there”, but after years of morons like you being convinced by the research you do in the checkout line at the supermarkets, the President petitioned Hawaii (not him, jackass, he didn’t have it) to release a photocopy of the page in the book. Should the President have asked Hawaii to do it sooner? Well look what good it actually did. The birthers are still not satisfied. Now back to your post. There are people in this world that deserve to be called stupid. Among them are flat earthers, 9/11 truthers, holocaust deniers, moon hoaxers, birthers, and you. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/38 "2011-04-28T15:07:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > And who the fuck said that he doesn’t have the right to say whatever he wants? > [@Babale](#): > > You have NO right to say that all religion is inherently evil and harmful. No wonder \*\*Starving Artist \*\*likes you. You are a kindred “I’m supposed to actually remember the crap I said earlier?” spirit. ---
**Author:** ![Lionne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Lionne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionne)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/39 "2011-04-28T16:06:07Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why can’t any debate, on these forums or elsewhere, focus on the merits of the actual issues, rather than consist purely of personal attacks on members on the other side? Why can’t we put aside our differences and be friends, and then debate the issues themselves? Why can’t we hate the game and not the player? Isn’t that what Great Debates is for, discussing the issues? In the Pit, name-calling is acceptable and expected. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965/40 "2011-04-28T16:09:03Z")
> [@Lionne](#): > > Isn’t that what Great Debates is for, discussing the issues? Hahahaha. You’ve never read a GD thread in your life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-freaking-crap-guys-how-hard-is-it-to-accept-people/579965.md?page=3)