# Holy grail, why is it holy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 20, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501 "2015-03-20T16:25:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/1 "2015-03-20T16:25:50Z")
Ok it is a cup, or bowl, used by Jesus. But why this particular object? Why not his robes, sandals, canteen, an object used by him for a longer period of time? I guess I’m asking why the legend grew up around this particular object. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/2 "2015-03-20T16:34:22Z")
Because it’s what de Boron wrote about, [basically](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail#Robert_de_Boron). ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/3 "2015-03-20T16:36:12Z")
The most commonly accepted interpretations of the origins of the Holy Grail legends point to a fusion of Christian symbolism with pre-Christian Celtic mythology, and the Celts already had the idea of a magic vessel (see, e.g., the magic cauldron in the tales of [Bran the Blessed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%A2n_the_Blessed)), but not magic sandals. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/4 "2015-03-20T16:49:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because it’s what de Boron wrote about, [basically](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail#Robert_de_Boron). So it’s sort of the 5th element of the Trinity? 😕 Or maybe not. A good read about Boron and the Grail legend is [here](http://books.google.com/books/about/Merlin_and_the_Grail.html?id=-Mz3sEURhiQC) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/5 "2015-03-20T16:49:41Z")
It’s _the_ cup used at the Last Supper. It contained the “blood of Christ”. Pretty much as special as you can get, only trumped by the “True Cross” (All 9000 board-feet of it) and the Holy Breadknife used to dismember Jesus at the last supper. (Sarcasm aside, I assume in those days bread was broken rather than sliced) Just as, today, the Chalice has a special place in the ritual of the mass. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/6 "2015-03-20T16:52:58Z")
[John](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+13%3A26-27&version=ESV) refers to Jesus dipping a morsel of bread, so (assuming it actually occurred) I think that’s a safe assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/7 "2015-03-20T16:54:04Z")
It touched the Blood of Christ (if you’re Catholic). That’s what makes it holy similar to the Holy Lance. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/8 "2015-03-20T17:06:39Z")
Well, not only was it a cup used to give the traditional Passover blessing, but it was used to catch His blood as he was dying on the Cross. Or not- it also could have been used by St. Peter to celebrate the first Mass. The origin likely has nothing at all to do with Celtic legend (altho doubtless it was mixed in by later writers) but in the Sacramant of Holy Communion, which dates from the NT itself, and was known to practiced as early as AD55, long before any Celtic mythology got mixed in with it. However, again, like I said, the various “magical powers” of the Grail likely came in later and are muddled with Celtic symbolism Oddly, the True Grail is more likely that not the _Holy Chalice of Valencia_, the cup of which is a simple agate cup (oddly it is blood red) which dates from the 1st century and made in that area. A base was later added. It has never been accorded any special supernatural powers, other than being a Holy Relic. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/9 "2015-03-20T17:09:49Z")
The problem of the “Holy Grail” is that two different objects are mixed: An ancient pre-christian dish and the cup of the Last Supper. There is/was a tradition in England (it’s exclusively English/British) that Joseph of Arimates went there after the crucifixion, carrying the cup of the Last Supper. Then Boron mixed previous stories of the dish with the cup and our “classical” view of the Grail is born. There are a couple of chalices, two of them in Spain, that claim to be the cup of the Last Supper. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/10 "2015-03-20T17:23:11Z")
It’s not “exclusively British”. There is a similar fable in France about how Joseph of Arimathea went there (possibly with Mary, as discussed in _The Da Vinci Code_ and the works it cribbed.) Unless you mean it’s an exclusively British idea that Joseph went to England. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/11 "2015-03-20T17:37:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oddly, the True Grail is more likely that not the _Holy Chalice of Valencia_, the cup of which is a simple agate cup (oddly it is blood red) which dates from the 1st century and made in that area. A base was later added. It has never been accorded any special supernatural powers, other than being a Holy Relic. The bowl and the dish that, inverted, forms the base are a matched set: what was added was the bejeweled stem that turns both into a cup. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/12 "2015-03-20T19:46:52Z")
The Grail that Arthur’s knights quested for was originally conceived of as a completely separate object, with no particular relation to Jesus (except possibly allegorically, if you think the Fisher King was meant to represent Jesus). Eventually, embellishments to the legend added that it was originally the cup that Jesus drank out of at the Last Supper and/or that contained blood from the Crucifixion, but I don’t know if there were any legends about that vessel before those embellishments to the Arthurian legend. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/13 "2015-03-20T19:49:58Z")
The Grail is holy because it held the [Guacamole](https://frtim.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/holy-guacamole.png). ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/14 "2015-03-20T20:09:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > … > The origin likely has nothing at all to do with Celtic legend (altho doubtless it was mixed in by later writers) but in the Sacramant of Holy Communion, which dates from the NT itself, and was known to practiced as early as AD55, long before any Celtic mythology got mixed in with it. > > However, again, like I said, the various “magical powers” of the Grail likely came in later and are muddled with Celtic symbolism… Actually, I wouldn’t be so quick to discount early Celtic influence on the New Testament church. There’s some [evidence](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/25/science/archaeologists-find-celts-in-unlikely-spot-turkey.html) that the Galatians (who received a letter from Paul that made it into the Bible) were Celts. ---
**Author:** ![sich\_hinaufwinden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@sich\_hinaufwinden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sich_hinaufwinden)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/15 "2015-03-20T20:44:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oddly, the True Grail is more likely that not the _Holy Chalice of Valencia_, the cup of which is a simple agate cup (oddly it is blood red) which dates from the 1st century and made in that area. A base was later added. It has never been accorded any special supernatural powers, other than being a Holy Relic. > > > [@Nava](#): > > > > The bowl and the dish that, inverted, forms the base are a matched set… Not according the few articles I’ve read about it. > [@](#): > > The piece is a hemispherical cup made of dark red agate which is mounted by means of a knobbed stem and two curved handles onto a base made from an inverted cup of chalcedony. > **[Holy Chalice](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Chalice#The_Valencia_Chalice)** > > The Holy Chalice, also known as the Holy Grail, is in some Christian traditions the vessel that Jesus used at the Last Supper to share his blood. The Synoptic Gospels refer to Jesus sharing a cup of wine with the Apostles, saying it was the covenant in his blood. The use of wine and chalice in the Eucharist in Christian churches is based on the Last Supper event. In the late 12th century, the author Robert de Boron associated the pre-existing story of the Holy Grail, a magical item from Arthu... > [@](#): > > Indeed, the relic is the upper part, which is a cup of dark brown agate finely polished. [snip] Its alabaster base of Islamic art is different from the vessel. [http://www.catedraldevalencia.es/en/el-santo-caliz\_historia.php](http://www.catedraldevalencia.es/en/el-santo-caliz_historia.php) > [@](#): > > In its present form, the “Santo Caliz” consists of three parts: a small agate cup, a reversed onyx bowl used as its foot, and a two-handled middle-piece of gold. [snip] The agate cup is the original relic. > **[Library : The Cup of Christ](https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6985)** > > The Cup of Christ Michael Hesemann, a German author and historian, provides a brief history of one of the most sacred relics of the Christian world — the Santo Caliz, the Holy Chalice, which inspired the myth of the Holy Grail. For more than 500... ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/16 "2015-03-21T04:30:01Z")
Notice that those articles don’t even agree on what the foot is made of. > [@Chronos](#): > > The Grail that Arthur’s knights quested for… embellishments to the legend added that it was originally the cup that Jesus drank out of at the Last Supper and/or that contained blood from the Crucifixion… Ah, I was wondering about that blood bit. It’s not part of Spanish legends. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/17 "2015-03-21T04:33:18Z")
Thanks everyone, :smack: I feel dumb now missing the communion angle. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/18 "2015-03-21T05:22:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > It touched the Blood of Christ (if you’re Catholic). That’s what makes it holy similar to the Holy Lance. AKA the Spear of Destiny. _Guten tag!_ ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/19 "2015-03-21T05:31:01Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > There’s some [evidence](http://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/25/science/archaeologists-find-celts-in-unlikely-spot-turkey.html) that the Galatians (who received a letter from Paul that made it into the Bible) were Celts. “Some evidence”? This is news? That’s odd, I thought it was pretty much common knowledge, and had been since antiquity. I’ve never heard the Galatians referred to as anything other than Celts. The Romans certainly called them Gauls. That’s where the name “Galatia” comes from. [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatians_%28people%29) goes into some details about the Gallic migrations into Anatolia. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501/20 "2015-03-21T09:22:24Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Ok it is a cup, or bowl, used by Jesus. But why this particular object? Why not his robes, sandals, canteen, an object used by him for a longer period of time? But there are indeed objects of veneration which it is claimed Jesus used for a longer period of time, including a [Holy Robe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seamless_robe_of_Jesus) and [Sandals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandals_of_Jesus_Christ). So yeah, the Holy Grail is special, but not to the exclusion of his other personal effects. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-grail-why-is-it-holy/715501.md?page=2)