# Holy linguistic bullshit, Batman! "Noose" does not equate to abuse! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616 "2007-11-24T17:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/21 "2007-11-25T07:47:06Z")
So, where would such a young lad have learned to tie a noose. And why? Seems like an odd skill to have aquired. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/22 "2007-11-25T10:13:16Z")
Well, when I last read anything scouty there was a whole bunch of stuff about tying knots… Seriously, I learned to tie one from someone at school in my teens, and we don’t have a background of lynching niggers over here. We used, however, to execute by hanging, so you could call it cultural. It’s not like it’s a difficult knot. I also worked out how to tie a gimmicked noose that would collapse under tension - useful for stage work. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/23 "2007-11-25T10:52:14Z")
The US process of pussyfication has been completed, the UN shadow army will commence the invation of both coasts by a massive assault of amphibious, slur flinging troops. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/24 "2007-11-25T16:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] So, where would such a young lad have learned to tie a noose. And why? Seems like an odd skill to have aquired. [/QUOTE] There are around 3 dozen different knots and lashings in the Boy Scout Handbook, and the hangman’s noose is not included among them. However, a lad interested in rope-craft will be on the lookout for novel knots that aren’t in the book. There always seems to be another scout who knows how to tie the noose and impart the urban legend about how it’s illegal unless it has 13 loops. This is exactly how I learned the skill, and FWIW, none of us ever considered it to be racially tinged in any way. We knew of it mainly from Westerns in which the outlaw met his fate at the end of a rope (or the hero made a narrow escape from the same). The noose is a centuries-old method of execution that outdates African slavery and is still an alternate method in some US states. As such, it’s a time-honored part of the Halloween haunted-house box of macabre tricks such as the bloody chopping block and axe, mock electric chair, simulated firing squad, medieval torture devices, all the murder weapons in the Clue boardgame, etc. Now that it’s being imparted all this taboo attention, I’m sure it will be even more popular than ever among young ropecrafters as an item of “forbidden knowledge”. My only question is, do I now need to refer to it as “the N hyphen o word” to distinguish it from the other radioactive “N hyphen i word”? Not that it ever comes up, I just don’t want to hang myself with the wrong word if it does. Don’t get me wrong… if any symbol, whether a noose or a graffito, is used as it was in Jena as an implied threat obviously targeted at black people, then it is a terroristic threat and should be punished severely. It’s just dismaying to see how we continually try to combat certain vocabulary words and pretend as if we’ve really changed something. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/25 "2007-11-25T16:21:54Z")
I am pretty sure there is more to this story than a teenager knowing how to tie a noose. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/26 "2007-11-25T16:33:41Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] So, where would such a young lad have learned to tie a noose. And why? Seems like an odd skill to have aquired. [/QUOTE] Every scout in my troop who had the faintest interest in knots found a way to learn how to tie a noose. Basically, it is a lashing on the rope instead of a lashing on a rigid object. I agree that we’ve only heard one side of this story from a clearly interested party. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/27 "2007-11-25T16:34:49Z")
[QUOTE=spooje] So, where would such a young lad have learned to tie a noose. And why? Seems like an odd skill to have aquired. [/QUOTE] Even _I_ can tie a noose. I learned it from an encyclopedia set when I was making a “Wild West” diorama back in the 1970’s in school. Given the climate of astounding ignorance we live in now, I fully expect most encyclopedias to either be censored or banned from schools in short order. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/28 "2007-11-25T18:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] The noose is a centuries-old method of execution that outdates African slavery and is still an alternate method in some US states. As such, it’s a time-honored part of the Halloween haunted-house box of macabre tricks such as the bloody chopping block and axe, mock electric chair, simulated firing squad, medieval torture devices, all the murder weapons in the Clue boardgame, etc. [/QUOTE] You might run into trouble these days adding a noose to your Halloween display. [http://www.lagrangenews.com/articles/2007/10/13/news/news01.txt](http://www.lagrangenews.com/articles/2007/10/13/news/news01.txt) > [@](#): > > NAACP protests Halloween noose display > Members of the NAACP demonstrated Friday against a Halloween display in the 1400 block of Hogansville Road across. > > A gallows with three dummies hanging from nooses appears in the front yard of Tommy and Deborah McCann. The protesters said it harkens to an era when blacks were sometimes the target of lynchings. > [@](#): > > Deborah McCann, who is white, said there’s noting racial about the display and, “I’m not taking it down.” > > “It’s all about Halloween,” she said, noting that the holiday originated in Ireland and “we’re Irish.” > > The dummies aren’t black, she said - one is white, another is a space alien and the other is “some kind of monster.” > [@](#): > That’s just one example. I recall a thread last year about pretty much an identical incident, and Google comes up with more. I guess these people protesting never saw a Western, or maybe they’d realize that “noose” does not necessarily equal “lynch a black person”. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/29 "2007-11-25T18:33:44Z")
Just what we need. Another n-word. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/30 "2007-11-25T19:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Just what we need. Another n-word. [/QUOTE] I think you should be less niggardly in choosing which words we should shun. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/31 "2007-11-25T21:01:59Z")
I’m waiting for the day they find another word for “vinegar”, since the last two syllables sounds like “nigger”. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/32 "2007-11-25T21:05:07Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] I think you should be less niggardly in choosing which words we should shun. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Let’s just call a spade a spade. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/33 "2007-11-25T22:32:48Z")
**Offensensitivity** As Berke Breathed called it in either _Bloom County_ or one of the followups. We end up being ruled by those who are most easily offended and/or the quickest to give offense. Because everyone wants to fall all over themselves to show sympathy and support for the “offended” rather than show any common sense. I know, I work for an ultra-liberal college. White Liberal Guilt is a terrible thing. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/34 "2007-11-26T01:39:36Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Exactly. Let’s just call a spade a spade. [/QUOTE] Let’s call it a God damn shovel. I think I will buy a Confederate Battle Standard, AKA Confederate Flag, tear strips off of it, braid a rope from the strips and tie a HANGMAN’S NOOSE in it. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/35 "2007-11-26T01:47:37Z")
I know how (or I knew) to tie a noose. Girl Scouts led to an interest in knots. An exposure to westerns led to an interest in tying nooses. Add an older (boy scout) brother, boredom and _voila!_ I end up with a noose around my neck. My mother had a fit. NOT (oddly enough) because she thought immediately of all the black people who might possible be offended, but because she was afraid I’d be strangled. Thus endeth our noose tying in our house. I never knew that my forgotten skill made me suspiciously racist. (which means I am so tired of this. Aren’t we all tired of this? If the dummies in the trees aren’t black–surely the woman’s Halloween decor is not racist? I say, string the space aliens up! Or we could tar and feather them…) I am not commenting on the OP’s article, just in general. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/36 "2007-11-26T03:21:59Z")
[QUOTE=LouisB] Let’s call it a God damn shovel. I think I will buy a Confederate Battle Standard, AKA Confederate Flag, tear strips off of it, braid a rope from the strips and tie a HANGMAN’S NOOSE in it. [/QUOTE] I believe it’s actually still illegal to deface the Confederate flag in Florida. So if you plan on tearing one up to make a noose, make sure it’s done respectfully and patriotically. Otherwise you may run the risk of offending proud, not-at-all-racist Southern white folk. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/37 "2007-11-26T03:36:10Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] I believe it’s actually still illegal to deface the Confederate flag in Florida. So if you plan on tearing one up to make a noose, make sure it’s done respectfully and patriotically. Otherwise you may run the risk of offending proud, not-at-all-racist Southern white folk. [/QUOTE] We don’t even have a law to prevent defacing the National flag. Are you saying that Florida figured out a way to get around the first amendment to protect a defunct flag? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/38 "2007-11-26T03:47:32Z")
> [@](#): > > We end up being ruled by those who are most easily offended and/or the quickest to give offense. Because everyone wants to fall all over themselves to show sympathy and support for the “offended” rather than show any common sense. > > I know, I work for an ultra-liberal college. White Liberal Guilt is a terrible thing. Have you ever considered it might be the opposite? Maybe the rest of us have decided to stop tolerating stupid people who act like racist assholes. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/39 "2007-11-26T03:48:48Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] We don’t even have a law to prevent defacing the National flag. Are you saying that Florida figured out a way to get around the first amendment to protect a defunct flag? [/QUOTE] Looks like it’s true. > [@Florida Law](#): > > PUBLIC LANDS AND PROPERTY Chapter 256 > FLAGS View Entire Chapter > > 256.10 Mutilation of or disrespect for confederate flags or replicas.–No person shall publicly mutilate, deface, defile, defy, trample upon, or by word or act cast contempt upon the flags of the Confederacy, or replicas thereof, for crass or commercial purposes; provided however nothing contained herein shall be construed to prevent or prohibit the use of such flags for decorative or patriotic purposes. > > History.–s. 1, ch. 61-115. Lady Liberty must weep. At least it is limited to crass or commercial purposes, so protest is still OK. I bet this statute would be subject to a challenge for vagueness but with todays SCOTUS I fear the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/40 "2007-11-26T03:57:56Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] Lady Liberty must weep. [/QUOTE] Agreed. As much as I am a proud red Southerner, a rag is a rag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616.md?page=3)