# Holy linguistic bullshit, Batman! "Noose" does not equate to abuse! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 24, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616 "2007-11-24T17:09:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/41 "2007-11-26T04:23:13Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Agreed. [/QUOTE] That has been happening too much lately… 🙂 askeptic-born in Bessemer, Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/42 "2007-11-26T04:32:24Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] At least it is limited to crass or commercial purposes, so protest is still OK. [/QUOTE] There was a flap earlier in the year about an art installation in Tallahassee: [The Proper Way to Hang a Confederate Flag.](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/17/us/17confederate.html?ex=1331784000&en=a806a3111ade6bf7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) It was suggested that the work might be in violation of [256.051 Improper use or mutilation of state or Confederate flag or emblem prohibited.](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0256/SEC051.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh0256-%3ESection%20051#0256.051) > [@](#): > > (2) It shall also be unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to mutilate, deface, defile, or contemptuously abuse the flag or emblem of Florida or the flag or emblem of the Confederate States by any act whatever. The law contains an exemption for “decorative or patriotic purposes,” and to my knowledge no legal action was ever taken. So if anyone does get a hankering to defile the Stars and Bars, just make sure to do it in a decorative manner. Use pinking shears or something. Maybe apply some glitter. It is nice to know that Florida law retains such respect for the traditions of yore. Jefferson Davis’ birthday is still an official state holiday here too, although my work supervisor looked at me funny the one time I requested that day off to celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/43 "2007-11-26T04:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic] I am pretty sure there is more to this story than a teenager knowing how to tie a noose. [/QUOTE] Then by all means, provide that information. Until then, the “soon to be debunked” story stands. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > The fact that America has moved from killing black people to making jokes about killing black people is progress but I don’t think it means we can declare racism is over. None of those things were stated or suggested in my OP. The point I sought to make is that the persons who endured fire hoses, police dogs, and more to further the cause of civil rights were strong individuals, and a mere word was insignificant to them. Instead of becoming incensed about a word, take action on a topic of worth, such as black on black inner city crime, raising black education and graduation rates, etc. Should western movies be banned because they feature nooses from which the lawless were hanged? Should a gallows be removed from the Mercer Museum in Doylestown, PA lest some person of color be offended by its presence? Placing words on a “don’t speak” list does no good service to any one, and harms us all, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/44 "2007-11-26T09:39:12Z")
[QUOTE=Cosmic Relief] There are around 3 dozen different knots and lashings in the Boy Scout Handbook, and the hangman’s noose is not included among them. However, a lad interested in rope-craft will be on the lookout for novel knots that aren’t in the book. There always seems to be another scout who knows how to tie the noose and impart the urban legend about how it’s illegal unless it has 13 loops. [/QUOTE] That sort of conflates two rumours that I heard - that the noose must be made with 13 turns, and that it was illegal to tie it except on official hangman’s business. (Which, since at the time there was no death penalty over here except for high treason, piracy, and arson in a naval dockyard, would have meant it was kinda seldom needed.) So, teenage boys being teenage boys, we were naturally as keen as all get-out to learn to tie it. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/45 "2007-11-26T10:38:20Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Just what we need. Another n-word. [/QUOTE] No noose is good noose. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/46 "2007-11-26T13:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] I’m waiting for the day they find another word for “vinegar”, since the last two syllables sounds like “nigger”. [/QUOTE] Maybe we should just make it simple for everybody and forbid white people to use words starting with the letter “N.” ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/47 "2007-11-26T13:15:42Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Have you ever considered it might be the opposite? Maybe the rest of us have decided to stop tolerating stupid people who act like racist assholes. [/QUOTE] No, more likely a lot people enjoy the pleasure of righteous hatred, and this endless witch hunt for racists gives them the perfect excuse to indulge themselves in it. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/48 "2007-11-26T13:17:20Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] I believe it’s actually still illegal to deface the Confederate flag in Florida. So if you plan on tearing one up to make a noose, make sure it’s done respectfully and patriotically. Otherwise you may run the risk of offending proud, not-at-all-racist Southern white folk. [/QUOTE] Has anybody ever actually been prosecuted under that law? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/49 "2007-11-26T13:23:18Z")
During the Satanic Panic of the 90s, a bored teen who wanted to stir up some excitement could would think, “All I have to do is spray paint 666 on a school wall, and everybody freaks out. Cool!” Today, he’d think, “All I have to do is tie a noose with this piece of string, hang it on a locker handle, and everybody freaks out. Cool!” The amusing thing is that progressives seem to think they’re somehow immune to irrational hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/50 "2007-11-26T13:23:36Z")
You know, when I think “noose” the first picture I get in my head is from near the end of “Pirates of the Carribean.” The second is from “Robin Hood: Men in Tights” and the third is from “Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.” Then I veer to generic Wild West justice. Just told the Hub that I suppose that makes me racist for not having enough of my mind constantly on the lookout for reminders of civil rights abuses. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/51 "2007-11-26T13:26:52Z")
[QUOTE=Una Persson] Exactly. Back in the 80’s they used to be called “Ghetto Blasters”, and possibly still are at times. In the 90’s (when this happened) I heard that started being called “Blasters.” For all I know, they’re called “Chuzzwuzzlers” nowadays. [/QUOTE] Who called them Ghetto Blasters? I never heard anyone call it that except characters on t.v. and in movies when they were trying to sound authentically “street”. We called them boom boxes. As far as the OP, it is all about context, isn’t it? A noose is fine, but if there are more nuances to this story, and I am biased to suspect that there are, then I can completely understand why the kid would be offended. Think of a swastika. It has more than one meaning, the original meaning having nothing to do with Nazis. Still, so much hate has been associated with the symbol that one would have to be certain of the context of the situation when one hears one was referred to at school. I know the swastika is an extreme example, but I think the point of paying special attention to ‘context’ is the same. Even if it happened just as the parent claims it did, I see a lot of room for the kids to have made the child feel extremely uncomfortable. As a child, it is not hard to feel insecure, easily intimidated…it is not hard to take advantage of an opportunity to intimidate someone else, to combat your own insecurities. The offended child may have had every reason to feel highly offended. That doesn’t mean we should all go ahead and ban nooses or the word noose. The school has a whole lot of other ways they can deal with the matter. They should not assume the kids were being evil. They should not assume the children were all wide eyed and innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/52 "2007-11-26T14:56:12Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Who called them Ghetto Blasters? I never heard anyone call it that except characters on t.v. and in movies when they were trying to sound authentically “street”. [/QUOTE] Oh, I heard "ghetto blasters"plenty back in the '80s. There’s a reason TV and movie characters used the term to sound, as you put it, authentically street: because in at least some areas, it was. My experience, specifically, was in and around the NYC area. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/53 "2007-11-26T15:19:07Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Oh, I heard "ghetto blasters"plenty back in the '80s. There’s a reason TV and movie characters used the term to sound, as you put it, authentically street: because in at least some areas, it was. My experience, specifically, was in and around the NYC area. [/QUOTE] I stand corrected. But I gotta say, _plenty_ of stuff they put in movies to sound authentically street is not. But again, I bow to a NYC native ghetto dweller’s experience. NYC was the mecca for ghetto slang. (still is, in my opinion) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/54 "2007-11-26T16:33:05Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Who called them Ghetto Blasters? I never heard anyone call it that except characters on t.v. and in movies when they were trying to sound authentically “street”. We called them boom boxes. [/QUOTE] We called them “Third World briefcases”, but that may have just been Wisconsin. > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Maybe we should just make it simple for everybody and forbid white people to use words starting with the letter “N.” OK - 'from now on, white people may never -" Oops. "White people may not -’ Damn! “White folks! Ix-nay on the ooses-nay!” Whew! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/55 "2007-11-26T17:37:18Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] But again, I bow to a NYC native ghetto dweller’s experience. NYC was the mecca for ghetto slang. (still is, in my opinion) [/QUOTE] Well, full disclosure: I was (and am) a white suburbanite who spent very little time in the ghetto proper–mostly going as fast as possible to get through it. But, I spent enough time in NYC during the 80s to have heard the term used frequently. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/56 "2007-11-26T19:27:24Z")
The thing about racist speech is that the actual words used make a big difference. Change one word in a sentence and you can go from saying something innocuous to saying something iffy. Use certain words and the iffyness goes away and is replaced by full-blown racial insult. Some things are insulting or offensive even paraphrased. Other things aren’t. So this story is one of those occasions when the exact words really matter, and I’m not sure we’ll ever know what they were. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/57 "2007-11-26T22:48:23Z")
When it’s OK to use the “N” word. NSFW. (Take out space between colon and slash) http: [//www.funnyordie.com/videos/3147](https://www.funnyordie.com/videos/3147) ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/58 "2007-11-27T00:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Has anybody ever actually been prosecuted under that law? [/QUOTE] No idea. Apparently some legislator thought such a law was necessary, though. It’s a good idea to have it on the books anyway, just as a precaution. Astonishing as it may seem, the Confederate flag was not always the universally beloved symbol of brotherhood that it is today. “Freedom of speech” is all very well and good, but burning a Confederate flag only empowers the enemies of the Confederacy. ---
**Author:** ![Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sticks_and_scones/32/16951_2.png) [@Sticks\_and\_Scones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sticks_and_Scones)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/59 "2007-11-27T04:00:02Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] We called them “Third World briefcases”, but that may have just been Wisconsin.OK - 'from now on, white people may never -" Oops. "White people may not -’ Damn! “White folks! Ix-nay on the ooses-nay!” Whew! Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Say… Is this a new Party quirk? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2007, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616/60 "2007-11-27T09:38:07Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] I believe it’s actually still illegal to deface the Confederate flag in Florida. So if you plan on tearing one up to make a noose, make sure it’s done respectfully and patriotically. Otherwise you may run the risk of offending proud, not-at-all-racist Southern white folk. [/QUOTE] Fuck 'em if they can’t take a joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-linguistic-bullshit-batman-noose-does-not-equate-to-abuse/427616.md?page=4)