# Holy of Holies - Second Temple **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 27, 2006, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461 "2006-05-27T16:52:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/21 "2006-05-30T00:11:43Z")
Bumping: Would God dwell in the Holy of Holies without the Ark and throne? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/22 "2006-05-30T00:58:05Z")
One reason to have the Holy of Holies even without the Ark is the possibility that the Ark might at some time be found and recovered. If you were High Priest and that happened, you’d look pretty silly if you didn’t have a Holy of Holies ready to put it in, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/23 "2006-05-30T02:10:43Z")
The inside of the [Ka‘bah](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba) has pretty much nothing except lanterns hanging from the ceiling and a table for incense burners. The Ka‘bah is a classic example of a South Semitic variety of the _baetyl_ type of shrine, found throughout the ancient Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/24 "2006-05-30T03:17:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One reason to have the Holy of Holies even without the Ark is the possibility that the Ark might at some time be found and recovered. If you were High Priest and that happened, you’d look pretty silly if you didn’t have a Holy of Holies ready to put it in, wouldn’t you? But why did the high priests keep going into the Holy of Holies without the Ark and the throne? Was God still dwelling there? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/25 "2006-05-30T17:45:58Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > The space on which the Ark once rested has an inherent holiness even in the absence of the Ark itself. So where **is** that space now? Somewhere under the Dome of the Rock? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/26 "2006-05-30T18:21:50Z")
Jebus: > [@](#): > > But why did the high priests keep going into the Holy of Holies without the Ark and the throne? Was God still dwelling there? It was still the place where, in the past, G-d had infused it with the most holiness, and it was the place where, when the Jews are worthy, G-d’s presence will “dwell.” Going in there to burn the incense on Yom Kippur was still a commandment for the High Priest to do, because the place had the highest possible level of holiness, even if the Ark was absent. BrainGlutton: > [@](#): > > So where is that space now? Somewhere under the Dome of the Rock? It’s within the Dome of the Rock, in fact, it is the eponymous rock. Jews call it the “foundation stone.” ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/27 "2006-05-30T18:37:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So where **is** that space now? Somewhere under the Dome of the Rock? Yes. [Some Jews will not go to the Dome of the Rock or other locations on the Temple Mount](http://www.jcpa.org/jpsr/s99-yc.htm), because everyone is considered to be ritually unclean these days, and entering the Temple in a state of ritual impurity was forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/28 "2006-05-30T20:37:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Was God still dwelling there? Isn’t God everywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/29 "2006-05-31T02:38:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Isn’t God everywhere? To look for Og in the rock is to look in the wrong place for He is everywhere… To look for Og in the rock is to look in the right place, for He is everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/30 "2006-05-31T02:43:14Z")
> [@Jebus H. Christ](#): > > But why did the high priests keep going into the Holy of Holies without the Ark and the throne? Was God still dwelling there? Well… we “know” that the room was empty because we have the reports of those that went into the room after they ran off the priests… Those that we’re following the preists instructions didn’t have a clue that the room was empty, and it was important for the preist to keep the flock inline… so he kept pretending that the room was important. Basically… if you were looking for god in a certain room, you were already missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/31 "2006-05-31T04:27:25Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Those that we’re following the preists instructions didn’t have a clue that the room was empty, and it was important for the preist to keep the flock inline… so he kept pretending that the room was important. The room was important. It’s the place the ark would have been if the temple had the ark. So the high priest wasn’t pretending. Just because it was empty didn’t mean it wasn’t important. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/32 "2006-05-31T05:32:44Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Those that we’re following the preists instructions didn’t have a clue that the room was empty, and it was important for the preist to keep the flock inline… so he kept pretending that the room was important. This theory fails when one recalls that the Jews made no secret that the room was empty. The room, even empty, was important for religious reasons. When Titus desecrated the room, it was specifically because he could not believe the information that the Jews provided that the room had been empty since the temple had been rededicated in 517 B.C.E. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/33 "2006-05-31T14:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The room was important. It’s the place the ark would have been if the temple had the ark. So the high priest wasn’t pretending. Just because it was empty didn’t mean it wasn’t important. > [@](#): > > The room, even empty, was important for religious reasons. Maybe this is what some of the posters in this thread fail to grasp: That spot was not holy because the Ark once rested on it, it was designated as the resting place for the Ark because it was a holy spot. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/34 "2006-06-03T16:19:18Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > Yes. [Some Jews will not go to the Dome of the Rock or other locations on the Temple Mount](http://www.jcpa.org/jpsr/s99-yc.htm), because everyone is considered to be ritually unclean these days, and entering the Temple in a state of ritual impurity was forbidden. 😕 hy would everyone be ritually unclean nowadays? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2006, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/35 "2006-06-04T03:54:00Z")
BrainGlutton: > [@](#): > > Why would everyone be ritually unclean nowadays? Because pretty much everyone has in all likelihood come in contact (directly or indirectly) with a dead body or some portion thereof, and there is no Red Heifer to purify them with. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/36 "2006-06-05T16:13:13Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Because pretty much everyone has in all likelihood come in contact (directly or indirectly) with a dead body or some portion thereof, and there is no Red Heifer to purify them with. 😕😕 Red Heifer? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/37 "2006-06-05T16:20:35Z")
Didn’t the High Priest not only burn incense in the HoH on Yom Kippur but still offer the sacrificial blood there? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2006, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461/38 "2006-06-05T16:30:01Z")
BrainGlutton: > [@](#): > > Red Heifer? [Read all about it](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%2019&version=31) FriarTed: > [@](#): > > Didn’t the High Priest not only burn incense in the HoH on Yom Kippur but still offer the sacrificial blood there? Yes, that was part of that service as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-of-holies-second-temple/358461.md?page=1)