# Holy shit a cop got charged for shooting someone! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 16, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951 "2013-09-16T04:52:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sodalite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/34f0e0/32.png) [@Sodalite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sodalite)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/41 "2013-09-16T15:32:37Z")
Hi there, folks from other places. I live in the next county over and spend most of my time in Charlotte, NC. [Here](http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/09/15/4315763/cmpd-officer-charged-in-shooting.html#.UjcZQz8qU1I) is an article from our local newspaper about the incident. > [@Uber\_the\_Goober](#): > > Not until now have I seen the impressive emotional bias, irrational thinking, and general ass-hattery that\*\* Der Trihs\*\* has so often been accused of. > > Good show man. > > For the record, I’d have to say that anyone who continued to run towards a cop after being tazed, should be considered dangerous and likely on drugs. Seriously who the hell runs straight through a taze? I bet we hear something in the coming weeks about the guy being on drugs or something. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > That’s why I’m glad it sounds like there will be an investigation. It could also be that the accident was caused because the driver was on drugs or otherwise impaired in some fashion, and he was still irrational/aggressive/whatever afterwards. **From the article:** > [@](#): > > Ferrell moved to Charlotte in February after a stint at FAMU where he played safety on the school’s football team. He worked two jobs, one at Best Buy and another at Dillard’s department store. > > Police said he drove a black Toyota Camry down a street that leads to the community’s pool, clubhouse and tennis courts. But the car crashed into an embankment about 2 a.m., police said. Investigators said they found no indication of alcohol use, but are waiting for toxicology tests. > > Ferrell apparently climbed out of the back window of his mangled car, police said. It was unclear whether he was injured, but he walked to a house just visible over the crest of a hill, about a quarter-mile away. ``` This has been a top news item here for days. There are a lot of questions about what happened and no answers that anyone would find satisfactory at this point. The wreck seems to have been pretty bad and he was probably hurt. It seems strange that the man would just silently run at the police without saying, "Help me!" or anything that would indicate that he was in distress. I mean, not a word, even after being tased? I'm surprised that even on this forum, people are very quick to blame the victim for what happened. It's not like he was in the middle of committing a crime or something. There were three officers on scene. It wasn't one cop, alone in the dark and scared for his life. Three against one injured, unarmed person. This man needed help and he got multiple gunshots instead. I think it says a lot that the officer was charged in under 24 hours. Even other cops know that something is not right here. ``` The SDMB has taught me a lot about commenting on incidents like this. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/42 "2013-09-16T16:05:01Z")
It’s possible that the guy wasn’t running towards the cops. He could have been in the process of running away _from the house_, after realizing the occupant had classified him as a criminal. The cops see this guy moving quickly and immediately concluded that he was bad. So they shoot at him.This strikes me as infinitely more possible than “he kept charging and we had no choice but to shoot at him!” Secondly, if the guy assumed the cops were coming in response to his accident but not necessarily to the person who phoned 911, why would he have not at least jogged towards the street so they would see him and know that he was the person who needed aide? He had no reason to think he’d be prejudged as a threat. He might not have realized the lady had called the cops on him. I don’t know why anyone should assume that the accident victim was the one here who acted irrationally or improperly. The idea that he actually “charged” the cops in such a way they were powerless to do anything except shoot him seems borderline fantastical to me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/43 "2013-09-16T16:10:43Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Honestly, if a strange man started pounding on my door at 2am, I’d have called 911. I don’t think “car accident victim seeking aid” would even be on my top 10 list of theories, unless I heard or saw the wreck. No, I’d assume: a) he was a strung out drug addict: b) he was intending to harm me: c) he was trying to escape from someone trying to harm him. Take your pick; all require police intervention. this. 2am. The time of last call in bars. This is when impaired people start pouring into the streets. This is when burglars break into houses. Nothing good can be associated with a knock on the door at this hour and it was described by the home owner as aggressively pounding on the door. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/44 "2013-09-16T16:11:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He did in post #4. Ahh, you’re right. You didn’t quote that post and I didn’t go up to check. I apologize for the misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/45 "2013-09-16T16:28:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > this. > > 2am. The time of last call in bars. This is when impaired people start pouring into the streets. This is when burglars break into houses. Nothing good can be associated with a knock on the door at this hour and it was described by the home owner as aggressively pounding on the door. The homeowner calling 911 is not the problem here- the problem is the cops shooting the unarmed man. I’ll reserve final judgement before hearing more, but it seems very possible that the three cops present could have found a safe solution that did not involve killing this unarmed man. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/46 "2013-09-16T16:29:46Z")
I was not making the argument that this particular cop should get off scott-free, but just that an argument might be made as to why an unarmed person could be shot and killed without it being murder. Maybe the guy didn’t run toward him in a threatening manner at all, and it was all made up. There is obviously a lot to this story I do not know. The cop may very well be guilty of murder or manslaughter. But I was trying to make the argument that there are situations where killing an unarmed person might be justified, and this story seemed like it straddled that line at the very least. Now if you know for sure that someone is unarmed, it’s a different story. But a person who is running toward you, who does not stop when you yell at them to do so, who does not stop when you pull out a gun and point it out them, who may or may not be armed, I think you could make a case for self defense. I would like to state for the record that I believe it is your duty to retreat if possible, first, before resorting to shooting someone in self defense. But someone running toward you might have a knife and shooting him before he gets to you might be the only way to save your own life. That’s all I’m saying. The fact that this victim was in an accident and traumatized is unfortunate, and that might explain why he did not put his hands in the air, did not comply with police instructions, and is now dead because for whatever reason he chose to run towards the police (if that is in fact what happened). It is unfortunate, but people who do not comply with reasonable police instructions are putting their lives at risk, because by the nature of their job, police have to treat everyone as possibly armed and dangerous. Running toward a police officer is not a good idea. Now if the police never yelled at him, never told him to stop, didn’t give him a chance to obey or whatever. If it was just: guy run towards police, police shoot guy, then I agree that’s totally murder and we should throw the cop(s) in jail for that kind of behavior. And maybe that’s what happened. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/47 "2013-09-16T16:39:53Z")
I understand that someone (unarmed) running towards a police officer puts the officer at risk, and shooting the person eliminates that risk. But when there are multiple officers present, is the risk high enough to justify killing them? It just seems like in this case (from what I’ve heard- withholding final judgement), whatever the actual rules for police behavior are, this particular cop was too quick to go to his gun as a solution to the problem. Cops should be smart and skilled enough to only go for their guns (IMO) when they are under threat from an armed person, or very occasionally an unarmed person (like a single female cop being charged by a huge man, which is quite different then this situation, which involved three male cops allegedly charged by an unarmed man). ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/48 "2013-09-16T17:11:10Z")
> [@Sodalite](#): > > The SDMB has taught me a lot about commenting on incidents like this. Since you included my less-generous-to-the-victim post as an example of judgement, it would have been nice if you’d included the one from me two posts before it about how perhaps he had a head injury, had lost hearing, etc., and might have been unable to communicate his problem to anyone. I thought the “people are racist as fuck” angle had been covered appropriately already so I didn’t comment on that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/49 "2013-09-16T17:22:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The homeowner calling 911 is not the problem here- the problem is the cops shooting the unarmed man. I’ll reserve final judgement before hearing more, but it seems very possible that the three cops present could have found a safe solution that did not involve killing this unarmed man. again. This. I’m not too fond of the current methodology of police training. I see time and time again where they use what I consider excessive force. There seems to be an infinite number of video clips where they scream commands like crazy people and then hog tie people who don’t immediately conform. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/50 "2013-09-16T17:30:59Z")
The problem as I see it is the failed use of a taser. Whether or not it was appropriate to use in the first place it is an indication of someone acting in a manner that poses a threat to the officer. I have to think that since there were multiple officers at the scene that something is missing from the story. If it was as stated then charges would not have been brought in the first place. “coming at the officer” could have been more in line with stumbling around in his direction after having been tased and the other officer’s version did not mesh with the one doing the shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/51 "2013-09-16T17:42:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The problem as I see it is the failed use of a taser. Whether or not it was appropriate to use in the first place it is an indication of someone acting in a manner that poses a threat to the officer. I have to call bullshit on this. Police do not use a taser only when they feel threatened; they use it whenever someone does not comply with their directions. Even if said person is in handcuffs, is 12 years old and is in a police station. Police have tasered helpless people in similar situations as punishment for various actions or inactions. In no way is taser use necessarily indicative of “a threat to the office”. > [@Magiver](#): > > I have to think that since there were multiple officers at the scene that something is missing from the story. If it was as stated then charges would not have been brought in the first place. “coming at the officer” could have been more in line with stumbling around in his direction after having been tased and the other officer’s version did not mesh with the one doing the shooting. I agree; undoubtedly there are things we don’t know. Presumably they will come to light during the officer’s trial. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/52 "2013-09-16T17:57:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I have to call bullshit on this. Police do not use a taser only when they feel threatened; they use it whenever someone does not comply with their directions. Even if said person is in handcuffs, is 12 years old and is in a police station. Police have tasered helpless people in similar situations as punishment for various actions or inactions. In no way is taser use necessarily indicative of “a threat to the office”. well I thought that’s what I was getting at with the post above it. maybe you missed it in the interim between your post. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/53 "2013-09-16T17:57:44Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > [There are around 800,000 cops in the US.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_police_officers). Why are there still any black people alive if what you believe is true? It’s taking longer than they thought. But, seriously, I’ve seen way too many police stops, and police interventions, or “contacts”. There is a meme of sorts among cops, and I won’t get the wording right, but it’s something to the effect of: “No matter what, you get home safe.” It’s been explained to me, by cops, that priority one is the safety of all cops, no matter what has to be done to ensure that, whether it be shooting a suspect, planting a weapon on a shooting victim, or lying to cover up a mistake. I sort of understand this, though I don’t agree, but as the police gain more and more sympathy with the public, and as they become more paramilitary in their behavior and practices, I predict events like this will become more common. A few years ago in Las Vegas, a man was walking along the sidewalk wearing only gym shorts, and carrying nothing but a basketball. He was shot dead by a police officer. The cop’s story was that he seemed suspicious (he was walking on the sidewalk near an outdoor public basketball court) and when the cop stopped him to question him, he made a sudden movement. My memory of the news story is that the investigation tuned up a normal guy with no criminal history who had a regular job and was just out to get a little exercise. If I recall correctly, the cop wasn’t punished in any way. I don’t know if there is any video or audio recording supporting the officer’s story in the N.C. incident, but if the only statement of events regarding the actual shooting is coming from police officers, then I’m not inclined to take the officer or his partners at their word. In another thread on this board, I posted a link to the Sept 11 Houston Chronicle story of a cop who repeatedly kicked a restrained subject at a traffic stop, and when the victim’s family objected, he arrested the whole family. This wouldn’t be such a big story, except the dash camera showed the whole thing. The cop is on paid leave. What can be done? Nothing short of a citizen’s review board that has the legal and political teeth to properly investigate such events and punish offenders appropriately. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/54 "2013-09-16T18:12:41Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > In another thread on this board, I posted a link to the Sept 11 Houston Chronicle story of a cop who repeatedly kicked a restrained subject at a traffic stop, and when the victim’s family objected, he arrested the whole family. This wouldn’t be such a big story, except the dash camera showed the whole thing. The cop is on paid leave. > > What can be done? Nothing short of a citizen’s review board that has the legal and political teeth to properly investigate such events and punish offenders appropriately. Good luck with that. I suspect the cop in your example is in big trouble. And I’m not discounting the seemingly endless stories of cops getting away with stuff like this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/55 "2013-09-16T18:22:22Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > What can be done? Nothing short of a citizen’s review board that has the legal and political teeth to properly investigate such events and punish offenders appropriately. Good luck with that. I would consider making the statement to the officer that he is under citizen’s arrest for felony assault and then letting him arrest me without provocation. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/56 "2013-09-16T18:27:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I suspect the cop in your example is in big trouble. And I’m not discounting the seemingly endless stories of cops getting away with stuff like this. Sure, the cop department is sick over the fact that the dash cam caught the whole thing, and that nothing “accidentally” happened to the tape while it was being transported. The guy is on PAID leave while they sort this out. I am as pro-union as it gets, but the police union … ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/57 "2013-09-16T18:39:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Only if the guy they shoot is black, like this guy. If you’re a black male you can pretty much be killed out of hand in this country. > > I expect that the woman he first tried talking to wouldn’t have called 9-11 over a man knocking on her door if he wasn’t black, either. Do we know the race of the woman on whose door he knocked? ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/58 "2013-09-16T18:40:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If you’re a black male you can pretty much be killed out of hand in this country. It’s true folks. It’s in the First Amendment. So you non-US Americans who are not white, or even white yet tanned, should not come vacation here. If you don’t get killed at least three times while you’re here you pretty much won the lottery of life. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/59 "2013-09-16T18:41:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Do we know the race of the woman on whose door he knocked? She is obviously white. If she wasn’t the police would have shot and killed her too. They do have a quota to fill. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951/60 "2013-09-16T18:46:52Z")
> [@SirGalahad](#): > > A few years ago in Las Vegas, a man was walking along the sidewalk wearing only gym shorts, and carrying nothing but a basketball. He was shot dead by a police officer. The cop’s story was that he seemed suspicious (he was walking on the sidewalk near an outdoor public basketball court) and when the cop stopped him to question him, he made a sudden movement. My memory of the news story is that the investigation tuned up a normal guy with no criminal history who had a regular job and was just out to get a little exercise. If I recall correctly, the cop wasn’t punished in any way. Your memory is pretty good. The shooting of John Perrin happened in April 1999 and was ruled justified 6-1 by a Coroner’s Inquest, a form of review that has since been dropped because it was deemed a whitewash by the local population and by the feds. In something like 30 years under the CI system, no police shooting was ever deemed unjustified. Even more egregious examples just here in Las Vegas include that of Orlando Barlowe (shot while on his knees surrendering and surrounded by armed police), Swuave Lopez (shot in the back while handcuffed & running away from officers) and Stanley Gibson (shot while unarmed & sitting in his car which was blocked in by multiple police cars). > [@SirGalahad](#): > > What can be done? Nothing short of a citizen’s review board that has the legal and political teeth to properly investigate such events and punish offenders appropriately. Good luck with that. Aye, even after the reformation of our system, it has no teeth, allowing the Sheriff to override the board’s findings and recommendations. The deck is stacked in favor of police and here in Nevada, they can kill you with impunity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-a-cop-got-charged-for-shooting-someone/668951.md?page=4)