# Holy shit, DeVos was confirmed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266 "2017-02-07T19:35:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/181 "2017-02-08T21:32:20Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Hm. Do private school teachers and administrators really hate her? You know, the people with actual experience educating kids? Are you trying to imply public teachers do not educate kids? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/182 "2017-02-08T21:36:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ok. > > If you want to say she has experience then lets see what her efforts have wrought: No. That’s not the issue. The argument was that the Republicans are putting party before country by going along with Trump’s nomination of this woman. As I’ve said plenty of times, I think she would be horrible for American schools but the objection to her appointment is not her lack of subject matter experience. They wouldn’t give a shit if she was just a rich unqualified political donor that wanted to feel important by getting appointed to a cabinet position. That is not the actual reason for the opposition at the high level. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/183 "2017-02-08T21:37:22Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I think you mean the “public school teachers and administrators” really hate her. You know, the people with actual experience educating kids. Indeed. It’s illegal for teachers in my state (and many southern states) to unionize. But every teacher I know hates her. The worst hatred comes from folks who teach kids with exceptional needs and who heard her glib and horrifying answer on IDEA. In other words, all of us. Private school teachers? I only know one, a brilliant math teacher at a prestigious private school. He’s appalled by her. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/184 "2017-02-08T21:37:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Are you trying to imply public teachers do not educate kids? By the same logic, was the poster I was replying to trying to imply private school teachers do not educate kids? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/185 "2017-02-08T21:40:39Z")
My reply from Cory Gardner(R-CO) > [@](#): > > As a product of public schools myself, and a father with one child - soon to be three - in the public school system, I believe it is important to have someone leading the Department of Education who will fight for public schools. When I had the opportunity to meet Betsy DeVos personally, she pledged to me that she would be an advocate for public schools, teachers, and educational opportunity for all. The debate around her nomination has been a healthy exercise of our democracy, made all the more important because it involves our most precious possession, our children. As someone who believes education decisions should be left to parents and their children with policy driven locally, Congress will hold her accountable and I will work to ensure she lives up to the commitment she made to me. As a Republican I will be proud to vote for his opponent in the 2020 primary and if he wins that the 2020 General (even if it means voting Dem) > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think she will improve education at all. I think she will do great harm. But the OP seems amazed that Republicans could support her. I’m amazed we have a political system where Senators can vote for a huge donor nominated for a cabinet position yet a Nigerian Prince staying in a hotel room is an unconstitutional emolument. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/186 "2017-02-08T21:41:05Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Hm. Do private school teachers and administrators really hate her? You know, the people with actual experience educating kids? Hm. The ones I recently talked to in Holland, MI, BDV’s hometown, actually aren’t too fond of her. Her push to keep things loose and unregulated gives privates and charters a bad name, in their opinions. They’re not against private and charter schools, obviously, but Betsy’s lobbying and advocacy here has absolutely wrecked the reputation of charters in Michigan. And I was replying to a poster who said “teachers unions” instead of the more accurate “public school teachers,” presumably to make some sort of political point. The reason I didn’t say “public, private and charter school teachers” is because most private and charter teachers don’t belong to unions. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/187 "2017-02-08T21:44:47Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Richard Riley, Lamar Alexander, William Bennett, and Shirley Hufstedler do not have a background in education. … Less experience and qualification than DeVos. Ummm…Richard Riley was Governor of SC for almost a decade. And has a law degree. And was partner in a law firm. DeVos has a) never held any elected position, b) does not have a law degree, and c) has never held a job (other than ones she made up for herself). ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/188 "2017-02-08T21:48:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As I’ve said plenty of times, I think she would be horrible for American schools but the objection to her appointment is not her lack of subject matter experience. They wouldn’t give a shit if she was just a rich unqualified political donor that wanted to feel important by getting appointed to a cabinet position. As a child, I read a children’s book about a girl who was very good, but who could only hold one thought in her head at a time, and was always getting into trouble thereby. I was fascinated by her stupidity. Do you think liberals can only hold one thought in our heads at a time? Of course we oppose her policies; but we also oppose her incompetence and her inexperience. The idea that we’d be fine with an unqualified political donor who wasn’t ideologically disastrous is silly and without evidence. I just read through the Wikipedia bios of all the previous SecEds. The ones with the least relevant experience were a governor known for his expansion of educational funding; and the first SecEd, who had extensive experience as a judge. DeVos doesn’t approach even the least qualified of these previous SecEds. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/189 "2017-02-08T21:49:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > By the same logic, was the poster I was replying to trying to imply private school teachers do not educate kids? No, the poster you were replying to was referring to the fact that private school teachers don’t typically belong to unions. \*That’s \*what I was addressing. Saying “teachers unions hate her” is a loaded term in these kinds of arguments that implies it’s a special interest third-party lobbying thing, instead of actual educators behind the dislike. He could’ve just said “teachers hate her,” as that would’ve been more accurate. I specified public school teachers in my correction, since he singled them out by referring to their unions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/190 "2017-02-08T21:53:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Richard Riley, Lamar Alexander, William Bennett, and Shirley Hufstedler do not have a background in education. Here are some snippets from Wikipedia for you: > [@](#): > > Riley’s gubernatorial accomplishments centered upon improving funding and support for education > [@](#): > > From 1979 to 1981, [Benett] was the executive director of the National Humanities Center, a private research facility in North Carolina. > [from the page on the NHC]The National Humanities Center offers dedicated programs in support of humanities scholarship and teaching > [@](#): > > In 1983, Alexander implemented his “Better Schools” program, which standardized basic skills for all students, and increased math, science and computer education.[23] A portion of this plan, known as “Master Teachers,” or “Career Ladder,” called for income supplements for the state’s top teachers. Due to staunch opposition from the Tennessee Education Association, which derided the plan’s method of teacher evaluations, the bill initially died in the state legislature. Later that year, Alexander convinced House Speaker Ned McWherter to support an amended version of the bill, which passed. > … > He would soon return to Tennessee and became the president of the University of Tennessee (1988–1991) Shirley? I’ll give you Shirley. She was the first, and while she had extensive government experience, later presidents nominated folks with more relevant experience. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/191 "2017-02-08T21:56:04Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > By the same logic, was the poster I was replying to trying to imply private school teachers do not educate kids? No, the contrast there was unions vs educators, YOU flipped it to public educators vs private. ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/192 "2017-02-08T21:57:43Z")
Seems like a good place to leave this nugget: [Someone Paid Strangers Online to Beg For Betsy DeVos’s Confirmation](http://theslot.jezebel.com/someone-is-paying-strangers-online-to-beg-for-betsy-dev-1791976320) Apologies if this is a repost; had neither time nor stomach to wade through it all. Trump will get the cabinet he deserves, one way or another. Listen to their projections. “Airport protesters are paid Soros schills.” You do the math. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/193 "2017-02-08T22:07:01Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > Seems like a good place to leave this nugget: [Someone Paid Strangers Online to Beg For Betsy DeVos’s Confirmation](http://theslot.jezebel.com/someone-is-paying-strangers-online-to-beg-for-betsy-dev-1791976320) She demonstrated that she was willing to spend $200 million to get the nomination. A little more won’t bankrupt her. As she said (from your link): “I have decided,” DeVos wrote in Roll Call in 1999, “to stop taking offense at the suggestion that we are buying influence. Now I simply concede the point. They are right. We do expect some things in return.” Well, pointless to complain at this point. She bought the position. It’s done. The corrupt Republican senators who she bought off voted her in. Great. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/194 "2017-02-08T22:12:17Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As I’ve said plenty of times, I think she would be horrible for American schools but the objection to her appointment is not her lack of subject matter experience. They wouldn’t give a shit if she was just a rich unqualified political donor that wanted to feel important by getting appointed to a cabinet position. That is not the actual reason for the opposition at the high level. We tend to be ok with giving some cush jobs to cronies. Jobs like ambassador to Bermuda. Bush II got caught out when hurricane Katrina wiped out New Orleans and it turned out his crony, Michael Brown, who headed FEMA didn’t have a clue as to what he was doing and a big disaster became a bigger disaster. We’d rather not have the incompetent in positions where they can do real harm. You’d think it was obvious but Katrina drove that lesson home. Secretary of Education is a place where someone can do harm. We have seen that harm done in Michigan at the urging of Betsy DeVos. It’s right there for all to see. She has no useful experience and her meddling has caused real and apparent harm pushing her personal agenda. The only reason for getting the appointment was massive amounts of money she gave to politicians. So yeah, there is good reason for anyone to oppose her appointment. Surely there is another conservative out there who would meet muster. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/195 "2017-02-08T22:35:48Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Hm. Do private school teachers and administrators really hate her? You know, the people with actual experience educating kids? I know several, and they hate her with a white-hot passion. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/196 "2017-02-08T23:24:35Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … Surely there is another conservative out there who would meet muster. There are probably thousands of them, all with the experience and credentials to more than qualify. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/197 "2017-02-08T23:32:17Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > There are probably thousands of them, all with the experience and credentials to more than qualify. But that number dwindles when you realize the credentials include “has given millions to the GOP” and “wants to destroy the department of education.” ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/198 "2017-02-08T23:34:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > But that number dwindles when you realize the credentials include “has given millions to the GOP” and “wants to destroy the department of education.” Of course it does. Priorities and all that ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/199 "2017-02-08T23:35:31Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > There are probably thousands of them, all with the experience and credentials to more than qualify. So what? She’s not going to be a teacher herself. Like I said upthread, over here in the UK what is expected is that she masters her brief. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2017, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266/200 "2017-02-08T23:39:08Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > So what? She’s not going to be a teacher herself. Like I said upthread, over here in the UK what is expected is that she masters her brief. So…in the UK you would have expected her to know the difference between measuring growth versus measuring proficiency? Or that IDEA is a federal program? Or know what Title IX is, and whether she supports it? She couldnt be bothered to do her own homework. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-devos-was-confirmed/779266.md?page=11)