# Holy shit! Hell has frozen over! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444 "2005-09-13T16:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/1 "2005-09-13T16:43:34Z")
Bush actually said he fucked up! Well, he didn’t say so in those terms, but he actually said “To the extent the federal government didn’t fully do its job right, I take responsibility” (re: [Katrina](http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington) ) I’m kind of stunned here, It’s like my world is turned upside down. The President actually admitted something was wrong! I need a little support here, things don’t feel so real anymore. What’s next? Gay’s being allowed to marry, an exit strategy for Iraq, help for the poor? I’m shaken, I need to go lie down. Wally ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/2 "2005-09-13T16:44:43Z")
Here’s a [fixed link](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington). ---
**Author:** ![akwally1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akwally1/32/3220_2.png) [@akwally1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akwally1)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/3 "2005-09-13T16:45:47Z")
Thanks Ashtar. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/4 "2005-09-13T16:48:03Z")
> [@Bush](#): > > \*\*To the extent \*\*the federal government didn’t fully do its job right, I take responsibility Queue the right wing noise machine pinning the blame on the locals. He starts out with qualifiers, he just. can’t . bring. himself. to say it straight. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/5 "2005-09-13T17:00:01Z")
Well, I give him credit for acknowledging that he fucked up. It’s a first step into reality for him. I wonder how he will change his practices or behavior as a result. I also wonder how he regards his initial two week policy of trying to shift blame and delay taking responsibility. Does he regret having done that? Do his defenders here modify their positions as a result? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/6 "2005-09-13T17:14:25Z")
This should prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, by the unassailable logic of Bush apologists, that Bush is a just Bush-hater and so we can safely dismiss anything he has to say. > [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I also wonder how he regards his initial two week policy of trying to shift blame and delay taking responsibility. Does he regret having done that? Bush haters like Bush are all irrational like that I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/7 "2005-09-13T17:15:51Z")
No doubt he and his advisors realized that taking responsibility is what was needed to improve his image as a leader. He was going to be blamed anyway, so might as well. Still, good for him. Better late than never, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/8 "2005-09-13T17:20:02Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > No doubt he and his advisors realized that taking responsibility is what was needed to improve his image as a leader. He was going to be blamed anyway, so might as well. Still, good for him. Better late than never, I suppose. Perhaps a new motto is called for: “The pocket change stops here.” ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/9 "2005-09-13T17:41:57Z")
My jaw has dropped. I don’t understand why he would start taking responsibility for anything now when the opposite has worked so well in the past. How bizzare. ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/10 "2005-09-13T17:46:43Z")
I saw this thread title on the front page, and without knowing the contents of the topic, I thought, “I’ve got to check the news sites and see if Bush actually took responsibility for his part in the Katrina aftermath disaster.” And wow. I guess right. Hell really _has_ frozen over. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/11 "2005-09-13T17:50:49Z")
I’m suprised - I never thought his handlers would allow him to say something like that. Credit where credit is due - I still don’t like him, his brother, his mother or his policies, but I won’t foam at the mouth anymore. I hope he follows through and turns DoHS into what it was supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/12 "2005-09-13T18:02:10Z")
I just read the article. It seems like quite a concession from Bush. Not exactly Harry Truman but then who is. The last President I saw who consistently took responsibility for his administration’s actions was Jimmy Carter and he was a terrible President, just a wonderfully smart Human. They forced Brown to resign; this was a small but major concession to the majority who fully recognized his blatant incompetence and now a small apology. These are steps in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/13 "2005-09-13T18:04:01Z")
> [@mstay](#): > > My jaw has dropped. I don’t understand why he would start taking responsibility for anything now when the opposite has worked so well in the past. Rove explained to him that while words are meaningless, they still have power. This was solely a move to take off some of the political heat. The lack of action on the president’s part in the coming weeks will bear that out. ---
**Author:** ![ElectricZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58f4c7/32.png) [@ElectricZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElectricZ)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/14 "2005-09-13T18:06:40Z")
Haven’t seen or read the whole “responsibility” thing, but did it include HOW he was going to take responsibility? Like him doing a little ass-kicking from the top down? It’s one thing to say it, but to make it really mean anything he’s got to make some heads roll IMHO… And not just sacrificial lambs, either. He’s got a golden opportunity to set a lot of things right here. I hope he does it. Fuckity fuck fuck fuck just to make this pitworthy! EZ ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/15 "2005-09-13T18:15:46Z")
Almost 1700 days into his presidency and W finally takes personal responsibility for a genuine mistake in his administration? :golf clap: ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/16 "2005-09-13T18:25:24Z")
He sure put enough qualifiers in there to keep from actually admitting it was a clusterfuck. Another interesting note is how they immediately suspect folks of bilking the government: > [@](#): > > Chertoff said that teams of federal auditors were being dispatched to the stricken areas to make sure that billions of dollars worth of government contracts were being properly spent. “We want to get aid to people who need it quickly, but we also don’t want to lose sight of the importance of preserving the integrity of the process and our responsibility as stewards of the public money,” Chertoff said. > > “We’re going to cut through red tape,” he said, “but we’re not going to cut through laws and rules that govern ethics.” Let’s hope they do a better job than what they’ve done in [Iraq](http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8753.htm) > [@](#): > > US Launches Probe of Alleged Embezzling in Iraq > By T. Christian Miller > The Los Angeles Times > > ``` > Wednesday 04 May 2005 > > Washington - The U.S. government has opened a criminal inquiry into suspected embezzling by officials who failed to account for nearly $100 million they disbursed for Iraqi reconstruction projects, federal investigators said Wednesday. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/17 "2005-09-13T18:34:52Z")
Bush didn’t say he fucked up. Bush didn’t even take responsibility. Bush said “the extent the federal government didn’t fully do its job right, I take responsibility” So imagine the football coach gets blown out of the water 17-42 and says in the postgame press conference “to the extent that the offensive team didn’t fully perform on the field today, I take responsibility.” Now those that support the coach will naturally say “his team scored two touchdowns and a field goal. What more could you want? 17 points is usually enough to bring a game home but the defense utterly failed in its job on the field today. 42 points is an embarrassment and it’s clear the defensive coordinator just isn’t up to the task of coaching in the NFL. The offense shouldn’t have been put in a position where they needed to score 3 more touchdowns just to put the game within reach!” Likewise “the number of screwups at the state and local level are an embarassment. When the federal government came to New Orleans they had to deal with halfwits like the mayor and the governor. There’s no reason they should have been put in a position to evacuate 100,000 people when that was the responsibility of those on the ground before the hurricane. The federal government did the best it could given the situation.” ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/18 "2005-09-13T18:45:04Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Queue the right wing noise machine pinning the blame on the locals. He starts out with qualifiers, he just. can’t . bring. himself. to say it straight. His statement was absolutely correct, and was the mark of a good leader. The primary fault with the fiasco in New Orleans lies with the state and city government, who have screwed with the levee and wetlands projects for decades. Bush is quite correct in acknowledging that the federal end of it didn’t work right, but he is also quite correct in not accepting the majority of the blame. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/19 "2005-09-13T19:46:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > the fiasco in New Orleans lies with the state and city government, who have screwed with the levee and wetlands projects for decades. You are aware that these are under the domain of the Federal government, yes? Or do you become wilfully ignorant when spewing out the Red Herring portion of the party line? > [@](#): > > Bush is quite correct in acknowledging that the federal end of it didn’t work right, but he is also quite correct in not accepting the majority of the blame. So you want to blame the locals for messing with the levees (which they couldn’t do because they were in the federal domain), or do you want to blame them for not responding quickly (which is like blaming people inside a burning building for not putting it out)? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/20 "2005-09-13T19:51:40Z")
Bush can’t win on the SDMB. He gets pitted for not admitting mistakes. Then, when he takes responsiblity for an error…he gets pitted. Oh sure, some have applauded him (as they should) but others have made their usual derisive comments. Hell hasn’t frozen over. When the usual suspects on this board stop pitting the man every time he takes a breath, and for every problem that modern man is facing, perhaps then that will be true. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444.md?page=2)