# Holy shit! Hell has frozen over! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444 "2005-09-13T16:43:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/21 "2005-09-13T19:55:16Z")
Ahhhhhhhhhhh … Now we are pit worthy… I was gettin worried… ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/22 "2005-09-13T19:55:50Z")
I’ll give him a little slack. A politician inserting a qualifier into a sentence is akin to a teenage girl inserting ‘like’ into one. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/23 "2005-09-13T19:57:32Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Bush can’t win on the SDMB. He gets pitted for not admitting mistakes. Then, when he takes responsiblity for an error…he gets pitted. Oh sure, some have applauded him (as they should) but others have made their usual derisive comments. > > Hell hasn’t frozen over. When the usual suspects on this board stop pitting the man every time he takes a breath, and for every problem that modern man is facing, perhaps then that will be true. Please give me one other example of Bush accepting responsibility for anything. He has, in fact, been very clear in his belief that he has not made mistakes before this. Please also stop giving short shrift to the many people who have given him whatever measure of credit he deserves. But, I really would like you to give me one other example of Bush accepting responsibility for anything. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/24 "2005-09-13T20:03:52Z")
After extensive focus grouping his cabal concluded that admitting he fucked up was less damaging then not admitting he fucked up. Big fucking whoop. I don’t sense a genuine admission, just the barest minimum he could put forth and still get credit for 'fessing up. Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t though, so I’ll give him a cookie on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/25 "2005-09-13T20:15:30Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Please give me one other example of Bush accepting responsibility for anything. He did cut me off in traffic once, by mistake, and did the little hand wavey “my bad” thing. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/26 "2005-09-13T20:19:14Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Please give me one other example of Bush accepting responsibility for anything. [Here you go](http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/073103B.shtml) Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/27 "2005-09-13T20:25:08Z")
“To the extent the federal government didn’t fully do its job right, I take responsibility” Sorry, it does seem a bit qualified to me too. Geez, a murderer could confess by saying “to the extent that I didn’t fully contribute to the health and well-being of the deceased, I take responsibility.” Seems wishy-washy doesn’t it? (I _still_ can’t believe this guy defeated McCain.) :mad: ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/28 "2005-09-13T20:26:45Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/073103B.shtml) > Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? He did admit a few years ago that he screwed up by trading Sammy Sosa when he owned the Rangers. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/29 "2005-09-13T20:28:20Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > …snip… > (I _still_ can’t believe this guy defeated McCain.) :mad: Me neither, it rare a politician runs that I like. I like McCain. I was not happy. Maybe in 2008. Please don’t let it be Jeb. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/30 "2005-09-13T20:34:11Z")
The really telling thing here is that his taking responsibility is garnering headlines. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/31 "2005-09-13T20:52:10Z")
He’s gotta be stoked that all this shit is keeping Iraq off the front pages. At least with “coreena” he’s only getting shit domestically. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/32 "2005-09-13T20:58:35Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/073103B.shtml) > Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? And yet, he still qualified it. > [@your cite](#): > > “Look, in my line of work, it’s always best to produce results, and I understand that,” Bush said during a 52-minute news conference in the Rose Garden’s summer sun. “In order to, you know, placate the critics and the cynics about intentions of the United States, we need to produce evidence. And I fully understand that. And I’m confident that our search will yield that which I strongly believe: that Saddam had a weapons program.” ~ President Bush He didn’t say he was wrong about Saddam. Just that he was wrong about the proof. In other words, he’s like a little kid. He’s not sorry for what he did. But he’s very, very sorry he got caught doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/33 "2005-09-13T21:17:03Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/073103B.shtml) > Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? You have to be pretty generous to consider that an example of taking responsibility for an error, despite the headline. > [@George W. Bush](#): > > I take personal responsibility for everything I say, of course, […] I analyzed a thorough body of intelligence, good, solid, sound intelligence that led me to come to the conclusion that it was necessary to remove Saddam Hussein from power. Taking responsibility for what you say is one thing – but there’s [no admission of a fuckup](http://www.house.gov/schakowsky/article_07_31_03_GayMarriageWashingtonPost.html) there. > [@](#): > > Bush strongly endorsed national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, whose public statements about the nuclear threat posed by Hussein had been contradicted by other officials and emerging facts. “Dr. Condoleezza Rice is an honest, fabulous person, and America is lucky to have her service – period,” Bush said, rapping the podium for emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/34 "2005-09-13T21:28:36Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > [Here you go](http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/073103B.shtml) > Sucks to be wrong, doesn’t it? Sucks to be you, I’m sure. To what was he admitting responsibility for there? There is no quote from Bush other than “I take responsibility for everything I say.” Well, that’s an amazing admission isn’t it? To be specific, this is what the article says: > [@](#): > > Bush did not directly answer when asked July 17 if he took personal responsibility for those words, but he amended his answer today. > > “I take personal responsibility for everything I say, of course,” Bush said. So, what is the responsibility he’s taking? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/35 "2005-09-13T21:41:48Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > So, what is the responsibility he’s taking? For everything he says, duh. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/36 "2005-09-13T21:52:22Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Sucks to be you, I’m sure. Ooh, ouch. Such harsh words! I haven’t been insulted so viciously since kindergarten. Looks like I hit a nerve. Nice try moving the goalposts, though. Don’t like my cite? Well, [Here is another admission from Bush](http://www.bluebus.org/archives/20040827_bush_admits_mis.php) [and another](http://www.evote.com/index.asp?Page=/news_section/2004-04/04152004election2004.asp) [and another](http://www.forward.com/campaignconfidential/archives/000973.php) These aren’t really hard to fine. Admittedly they are from sites where bitter little people (much like yourself) have nothing better to do than to bash someone who has attained a level of success they can only dream about, but they are out there nonetheless. Yes, Bush is going to qualify his admission. Why shouldn’t he? It’s not like he is totally at fault, and I defy anyone to argue that he is. The man has power…a LOT of power, but he is not omnipotent. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/37 "2005-09-13T22:05:17Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Ooh, ouch. Such harsh words! I haven’t been insulted so viciously since kindergarten. That explains where your insult came from. > [@](#): > > Looks like I hit a nerve. Nice try moving the goalposts, though. Obvious attempts at smoke and mirrors always hits a nerve. The one that causes eyes to roll upward, along with the automatic response of “not again.” > [@](#): > > These aren’t really hard to fine. Admittedly they are from sites where bitter little people (much like yourself) have nothing better to do than to bash someone who has attained a level of success they can only dream about, but they are out there nonetheless. Well, in some cases. In this one, not so much, seeing as how all my successes I got on my own. My daddy didn’t have to buy any of them for me. And my failures really don’t look so bad compared to GW’s. At least mine weren’t in front of the entire world, and I’m not responsible for anyone’s death. > [@](#): > > Yes, Bush is going to qualify his admission. Why shouldn’t he? It’s not like he is totally at fault, and I defy anyone to argue that he is. The man has power…a LOT of power, but he is not omnipotent. Because he’s the president. Because, as the saying goes, “the buck stops here.” Or at least, it used to. For men who believed that the position of president constituted a leadership role. You’re right about one thing, though. The man has power. And to him, that’s all it’s about. His power and what he can do with it. Not his responsibility, and what he _should_ do with it. The POTUS position is very much like that of the captain of a ship. The captain is responsible for every single human life on that ship. He’s responsible for their successes, he’s responsible for their failures, because it’s his decisions which bring those successes and failures about. Even if it’s someone else who screws up and blasts a hole in the side of it, _he is responsible,_ because he put that person in the position of being able to do so. Just like with the now-ex head of FEMA. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/38 "2005-09-13T22:10:32Z")
How will it be established whether or not the federal government did its job right? Assuming that it’s established it didn’t, how exactly will he “take responsability” for it? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/39 "2005-09-13T22:12:46Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > …snip… > The POTUS position is very much like that of the captain of a ship. The captain is responsible for every single human life on that ship. He’s responsible for their successes, he’s responsible for their failures, because it’s his decisions which bring those successes and failures about. Even if it’s someone else who screws up and blasts a hole in the side of it, _he is responsible,_ because he put that person in the position of being able to do so. Just like with the now-ex head of FEMA. Now thats just not fair to Bush Jr. He was AWOL for portion of military duty where you learn responsibility. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444/40 "2005-09-13T22:18:43Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > [Here is another admission from Bush](http://www.bluebus.org/archives/20040827_bush_admits_mis.php) Okay, so he said he made a miscalculation. That’s not quite the same as saying he made a mistake. > [@](#): > > [and another](http://www.evote.com/index.asp?Page=/news_section/2004-04/04152004election2004.asp) Bush didn’t admit anything there, [his press secretary did](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/15/politics/main612036.shtml). > [@](#): > > [and another](http://www.forward.com/campaignconfidential/archives/000973.php) There’s that “miscalculation” thing again, then he says he wasn’t really wrong after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-shit-hell-has-frozen-over/321444.md?page=3)