# Holy Water **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 18, 2020, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617 "2020-01-18T13:40:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/61 "2020-01-20T05:12:11Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Thanks for the comments, I’ll check this out. But, wait… you KNOW what this priest said? You’re leaping right to 'there is zero chance those people you overheard have any roman catholic catechism instruction whatsoever." > > Ummm, it was the head priest. > > Just looked him up: “Fr. \_\_\_\_\_ has been the Pastor of St.\_\_\_ since 2006 and a priest of the Diocese of \_\_\_\_ since 1995.” > > So, how do you know for certain a priest would never say anything not completely in line with Catholic Doctrine? > > I’ll see if I can ask him, as he was indeed the priest who was explaining the “objects blessed/consecrated by a priest or bishop”. I DO hope I have it wrong, because the part I heard was unequivocally a belief in magic. Or, technically, a belief in blessed items having supernatural powers imbued by the blessing, and retaining that power long after being consecrated. If that’s the case, then, as I understand Catholic teachings, that priest has some decidedly non-standard views on the powers of “consecrated” items. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/62 "2020-01-20T11:44:45Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > that priest has some decidedly non-standard views on the powers of “consecrated” items. In this thread, I have seen items described as holy, sacred, blessed, sacramental, Holy (large H), magical, and consecrated. As an outsider, I want the religious writers out there to understand that these words are synonyms to me in this context. It’s even possible (to me from my ignorant vantage) that some of these words are synonyms for Protestants but not for Roman Catholics and so forth. When I think of a magical object, I am thinking of an object that is definably, objectively different from a normal object. I am not thinking of something that is sentimental (as the bookshelves I mentioned above) or precious exclusively because it is aesthetically pleasing. The explanation of, “Oh, you silly person, you are thinking of Magical Items when really these are Sacred Items…” is not immediately useful. Thank You to Everyone who has tried to help parse the details. I sincerely appreciate it! ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/63 "2020-01-20T15:23:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > If that’s the case, then, as I understand Catholic teachings, that priest has some decidedly non-standard views on the powers of “consecrated” items. THANK YOU! I was really hoping it wasn’t a widespread belief in magic. And your comment explains a lot; I’ve known too many clergy and church leaders (Catholic, Protestant and Jewish) who slip and throw their personal “wishful thinking” opinions in with actual doctrine and it all gets mixed up and messy. This priest may have thought “Wouldn’t it be cool if a blessed tchotchke had some awesome power?”, and cherry-picked stories he’d read or heard: “This really happened to a friend of a friend of a parishioner”. I teach with a guy who was told magical tales by The Nuns he was taught by, devised to frighten their charges. [started to tell one, but it’s kind of creepy. Suffice to say kids who sneak a communion wafer home suffer when it turns into an actual chunk of flesh] So your comment put my mind at ease and made me think “Well, it’s only human to believe stuff we really want to believe. We’d hope we could hold leaders to higher standards, but there’ll always be slip-ups.” ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/64 "2020-01-20T18:51:01Z")
The rc church tends to stick very close to the manual of the church. Priests making up their own magic stories would be a first for me. Not like there isn’t already enough material to choose from. Rc priests slip up in many ways - enough stories in the news, and even whole Hollywood movies to provide anecdotes. But not that way. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/65 "2020-01-20T20:11:06Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I teach with a guy who was told magical tales by The Nuns he was taught by, devised to frighten their charges. I attended Catholic grade schools, and a Catholic high school. Surprisingly, I didn’t have many nuns as instructors, but the few that I did have were all older, and they were very much believers in divine miracles in the present day – two stories that I remember being told about included [Padre Pio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padre_Pio), an Italian priest (now a saint) who was known for a variety of miraculous powers, including exhibiting stigmata and receiving visions, as well as the story about how explorers found “the true Cross,” and were able to prove that it was the actual Cross because placing ill people on it cured them. It wouldn’t have surprised me in the least to learn that those nuns had some non-standard beliefs in sacred items, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/66 "2020-01-22T14:52:30Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I attended Catholic grade schools, and a Catholic high school. Surprisingly, I didn’t have many nuns as instructors, but the few that I did have were all older, and they were very much believers in divine miracles in the present day – two stories that I remember being told about included [Padre Pio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padre_Pio), an Italian priest (now a saint) who was known for a variety of miraculous powers, including exhibiting stigmata and receiving visions, as well as the story about how explorers found “the true Cross,” and were able to prove that it was the actual Cross because placing ill people on it cured them. > > It wouldn’t have surprised me in the least to learn that those nuns had some non-standard beliefs in sacred items, as well. Then you didn’t understand the nature of the miracles they spoke of. The Catholic church is very careful about this stuff. There are many things which some Catholics believe that fall into the realm of superstition etc. The hierarchy doesn’t argue with those things, or Mary appearing on a tortilla, but they also very clearly state that they don’t endorse it either. The idea of prosperity coming to those who pray for it or possess a magical object is not just a superstitious practice the Church looks the other way about, it is completely contrary to the teachings of Jesus and by extension the Church. Prosperity is not the point of life on earth, to the Church. At all. I have met some pretty whacked-out priests in my day, God knows, but never one who said anything resembling that. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/67 "2020-01-22T15:07:18Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I’d worry that if I anointed my sensitive spots with his water, it might make my peter pop off. C’mon, he’s offering to heal the sick, not raise the dead! ---
**Author:** ![Ignotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecc23a/32.png) [@Ignotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ignotus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/68 "2020-01-23T00:48:40Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Wonder just how bacteriologically inert that water is after 100 unwashed finger dips. Not to mention that i’ts all old dinosaur pee! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/69 "2020-01-23T01:07:26Z")
> [@Ignotus](#): > > Not to mention that i’ts all old dinosaur pee! :eek: Not to mention a few molecules [passed thru Julius Caesar’s bladder,](http://redneckmath.blogspot.com/2011/09/drinking-caesars-urine.html) no doubt with significant political enhancements. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/70 "2020-01-23T17:05:36Z")
It appears I’m a bit late here, but wanted to add we Lutherans also have a bowl of Holy Water by the door. It is, indeed, to help us remember our Baptism. And it is blessed by our Pastor. Also we don’t believe the bread and wine literally transforms into the body and blood of Christ, but we DO believe that the Real Presence of Christ is in the elements. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/71 "2020-01-23T22:39:48Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It appears I’m a bit late here, but wanted to add we Lutherans also have a bowl of Holy Water by the door. It is, indeed, to help us remember our Baptism. And it is blessed by our Pastor. > > Also we don’t believe the bread and wine literally transforms into the body and blood of Christ, but we DO believe that the Real Presence of Christ is in the elements. Have you seen [this](http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/ecumenical-and-interreligious/ecumenical/lutheran/eucharist.cfm)? Joint Catholic/Lutheran statement on (among other things) the nature of the Eucharist. > [@](#): > > II. THE PRESENCE OF CHRIST IN THE LORD’S SUPPER > > Here, too, there are areas in which this group believes that Roman Catholics and Lutherans can make the same affirmations, and others in which our agreement is not yet complete. > > […] > > We affirm that in the sacrament of the Lord’s supper Jesus Christ, true God and true man, is present wholly and entirely, in his body and blood, under the signs of bread and wine. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/72 "2020-01-23T23:17:08Z")
Yes, that’s in line with what **ISiddiqui** said. The Catholic and Lutheran views on the Eucharist are very similar, but there are still subtle differences that matter to theologians. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617/73 "2020-01-29T04:53:21Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Vatican II was about a lot of things; cleanliness I don’t believe was mentioned. Jesus didn’t take antiseptics, nor squirt lime juice on salad to sterilize it AFAIK, so why should believers? Xians have long wallowed in holy filth. Afterlife trumps life. > [@DrForrester](#): > > In this thread, I have seen items described as holy, sacred, blessed, sacramental, Holy (large H), magical, and consecrated. > > As an outsider, I want the religious writers out there to understand that these words are synonyms to me in this context. It’s even possible (to me from my ignorant vantage) that some of these words are synonyms for Protestants but not for Roman Catholics and so forth. > > When I think of a magical object, I am thinking of an object that is definably, objectively different from a normal object. I am not thinking of something that is sentimental (as the bookshelves I mentioned above) or precious exclusively because it is aesthetically pleasing. > > The explanation of, “Oh, you silly person, you are thinking of Magical Items when really these are Sacred Items…” is not immediately useful. If, as AC Clarke claimed, sufficiently advanced technologies are indistinguishable from magic, what technologies might magics employ? Do the “holy, sacred, blessed, sacramental, Holy (large H), magical, and consecrated” invoke different technologies, like various ways to power vehicles? Is a steam turbine holier than electricity? Both water and electrons can be blessed, sure. If any mystic-religious technology worked, wouldn’t it obsolete the competition? Whose holy water is strongest? I envisage a splash-off competition, with holy folks of many creeds armed with squirt pistols (no water cannons allowed). See who dissolves. Is one who stays dry angelic or demonic? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holy-water/846617.md?page=3)