# Home Healthcare Workers on Strike **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 8, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312 "2004-06-08T18:51:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/21 "2004-06-09T05:41:49Z")
Isn’t this the part of the program where some conservative tells us that the free market system is working as it should, and we should all be grateful that the evil Billary Clinton failed in their attempt to reform America’s health care system a decade earlier? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/22 "2004-06-09T10:44:19Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Except a lot of people will have to go three days w/o life-sustaining medications and food (I’m sure a lot of them are hurriedly arranging alternate care, but some will fall through the cracks). In that case, family can step in and help out for a few days until the strike is over. **Eve** , if you think Pwincess Pwecious is annoying, work with some of these patients sometime. Another of my classmates had one who had been asked to leave two different nursing homes because of her rude, violent behavior. AFAIK, she wasn’t demented, but just a nasty, cruel person. My classmate’s choices were to a) refuse the patient and lose her job (and possibly risk a patient abandonment charge that would bar her from future employment anywhere in healthcare) or b) suck it up and take it. Fortunately for her, she quit and went back to school. **Zev** , while I agree that licensing would be a good idea, consider that it would drive up fees for services. Until insurance companies recognize that care by a HHA is not “patient convenience” and offer suitable reimbursement, there will be little incentive by agencies to raise salaries to aides. Until that happens, licensing would be an added burden, given that a professional license fee can run into the hundreds of dollars. Part of the issue is that we pay caregivers of all kinds so little money. Until we, as a society, learn to value these people instead of scorning them, we can expect more of the same. And I say “good on 'em”! Robin ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/23 "2004-06-09T12:31:17Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Isn’t this the part of the program where some conservative tells us that the free market system is working as it should, and we should all be grateful that the evil Billary Clinton failed in their attempt to reform America’s health care system a decade earlier? :rolleyes: No, it’s the part where someone makes a partisan jab in a discussion that, so far, has been refreshingly free of partisan rancor. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/24 "2004-06-09T13:09:57Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Sad to say, but yes. However, IIRC, there was a Canadian nurses’ strike not too long ago. …after successions of governments had cut the wages and extended the hours of nurses, as well as cutting hospital services the nurses needed to do their jobs, until it was pretty much the situation described. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/25 "2004-06-09T13:10:22Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > No, it’s the part where someone makes a partisan jab in a discussion that, so far, has been refreshingly free of partisan rancor. I dunno…I think his comment has a place in this conversation. Sort of. The overhaul of our healthcare system MUST take priority soon. The numbers of people who will receive little to no care is staggering. I don’t know that I want to “exit, stage left” at 60 like Eve, but if I’m sick at that time, I’ll definitely consider it. The other choice is to become a burden to your family. Now, some of you may think “that’s what family is for”…but I certainly don’t want to have to force my husband or son to change me, feed me, inject me, bathe me, etc. I watched my MIL do it for 10 months, and it aged her 10 years. Fuck that. As a nation, we MUST come up with something that will work on a large scale. Do I sound outraged? Fuckin’ A. I don’t know how many of you have helped care for a sick relative, but I did it twice with my husband’s family. My mom didn’t want us to go through it so she did in-hospice care. Did I ever tell ya she RAWKED!? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/26 "2004-06-09T13:21:13Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I dunno…I think his comment has a place in this conversation. Sort of. The overhaul of our healthcare system MUST take priority soon. I’m all for socialized health care, and I think we should raise income taxes to do it. But if you want to talk about overhauling the US health care system, you can introduce the topic _without_ sniping at “conservatives.” > [@](#): > > Do I sound outraged? Fuckin’ A. I don’t know how many of you have helped care for a sick relative Probably lots of people. Caring for the sick has been one of the traditional functions of families for a long time, and lots of people still do it. In a hypothetical state-run health care system, do you see the state providing in-home care? Personally, I think state-funded hospices and nursing homes may be a more financially tenable solution, and would probably provide better care to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/27 "2004-06-09T14:12:40Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > I’m all for socialized health care, and I think we should raise income taxes to do it. But if you want to talk about overhauling the US health care system, you can introduce the topic _without_ sniping at “conservatives.” Where the hell do you get that I “sniped” at anyone, let alone “conservatives”? Not that I don’t _love_ to at every opportunity. But the fact is, I didn’t…and you’re not paying attention. Believe me…you’ll have plenty of opportunity to point out my conservative sniping…just make sure it actually happened when you do. > [@](#): > > Probably lots of people. Caring for the sick has been one of the traditional functions of families for a long time, and lots of people still do it. _Traditionally_, there was someone home to do it. _Traditionally_, the people who were home to do it weren’t in their 80s and dealing with their own issues. It’s hard work when you’re young and fit. When you’re old, it’s damn near impossible. > [@](#): > > In a hypothetical state-run health care system, do you see the state providing in-home care? Personally, I think state-funded hospices and nursing homes may be a more financially tenable solution, and would probably provide better care to boot. While I prefer in-hospice care to home-hospice care, I can see where the costs can be kept down somewhat with family members carrying some of the burden… feeding, some meds administration, some personal care. Also, patients generally do better in their own home than in a hospice. In my FIL’s case, he lived another ten months after being released from the nursing home. While he was there, he was miserable. He became uncommunicative, depressed, wouldn’t eat. He did much better at home. My mom, on the other hand, didn’t want to die at home. She only spent two weeks in hospice before she died. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/28 "2004-06-09T14:25:50Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Where the hell do you get that I “sniped” at anyone, let alone “conservatives”? Not that I don’t _love_ to at every opportunity. But the fact is, I didn’t…and you’re not paying attention. :rolleyes: I made a comment about **rjung** ’s swipe. You said his comment had a place in the conversation because, after all, the health care system really does need to fundamentally change. I said that I agreed with that, but that the topic could have been introduced in a less inflamatory manner. I was using “you” in an indefinate sense to refer to a generic person, i.e., “If someone wants to talk about overhauling the health care system, that someone can do so without swiping at conservatives.” This is a valid usage of the word “you.” It doesn’t always refer to the reader. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/29 "2004-06-09T14:32:26Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I made a comment about **rjung** ’s swipe. You said his comment had a place in the conversation because, after all, the health care system really does need to fundamentally change. I said that I agreed with that, but that the topic could have been introduced in a less inflamatory manner. I was using “you” in an indefinate sense to refer to a generic person, i.e., “If someone wants to talk about overhauling the health care system, that someone can do so without swiping at conservatives.” This is a valid usage of the word “you.” It doesn’t always refer to the reader. You didn’t quote rjung. You quoted me. If you were commenting on rjung’s comment, you should have quoted him. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/30 "2004-06-09T14:45:44Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > You didn’t quote rjung. You quoted me. If you were commenting on rjung’s comment, you should have quoted him. I quote who I respond to. I was responding to your[sub]Kalhoun’s[/sub] comment about **rjung** ’s comment, so I quoted you[sub]Kalhoun[/sub]. I assumed that it would be clear from the context, given that **rjung** ’s comment was what prompted the conversation, and **rjung** was the one who made the swipe, and you[sub]Kalhoun[/sub] hadn’t made any swipe, and that I was agreeing with your[sub]Kalhoun’s[/sub] post. Obviously, that was an incorrect assumption and it was unclear. In retrospect, it was ambiguous. Sorry. Hopefully that’s it for this sidetrack. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/31 "2004-06-09T15:47:01Z")
I believe it is now clear. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/32 "2004-06-09T17:58:55Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > **Eve** , if you think Pwincess Pwecious is annoying, work with some of these patients sometime. Another of my classmates had one who had been asked to leave two different nursing homes because of her rude, violent behavior. AFAIK, she wasn’t demented, but just a nasty, cruel person. My classmate’s choices were to a) refuse the patient and lose her job (and possibly risk a patient abandonment charge that would bar her from future employment anywhere in healthcare) or b) suck it up and take it. Fortunately for her, she quit and went back to school. Oh, I feel deeply about this. I had a job that was possibly a little higher up on the food chain, but not by much. We got paid a little better and the benefits were decent to good, but we still were not paid enough and the organization was abysmal. We had patients that were horrible and abusive. One patient would rip out employees’ hair by the roots (big chunks of hair) and had kicked at least one pregnant employee in the stomach. But nothing was done because the guardians of this patient had “clout.” New employees were continually suckered into working with this patient, without being told of the risks. Charming. We all worked by ourselves in houses or “group homes” with the patients. Sometimes the house was not set up properly for people with disabilities (no handles in the bathtub, etc.), but you damn well know that if there was an accident, who would be looked at with suspicion? That’s right, the health care worker. It was almost like they were setting us up to fail. And the “higher ups” (doctors, nurses) would sometimes try to pin the blame of their negligence on the lowly health care worker. And about the “patient abandonment” thing, yes, we had that too. Not that I couldn’t understand—I could. You just couldn’t leave these patients alone. But to know that if the next shift doesn’t show up (and it wasn’t uncommon for them not to show up) that you were stuck there indefinitely—well, that was awful. And I’ll never forget how one employee couldn’t leave work, even though her kid was possibly dying in the hospital. She couldn’t leave. Not for hours. The bosses dragged their heels finding someone to relieve her so she could join her kid in the hospital (the kid did not die, fortunately). I worried that sometime one of my family members would have some life-or-death emergency, but I wouldn’t be able to leave. Horrible. It wouldn’t have been so stressful if I had faith in my bosses to be Johnny on the Spot to relieve me so I could go attend to the emergency, but I knew from past behavior that they might not. It’s no wonder that I still have bad dreams about working at that place. (And bear in mind, it was higher up on the food chain than the working conditions of the people in the OP! They’ve got it even _worse!_) I hope some reform happens in the system soon. All I know is that I hope to God that I _never_ have to work at such a job again. And not because of the work, per se—I learned a lot from it—but because of the horrible way things are set up. Very perilous. I don’t even want to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/33 "2004-06-09T19:20:29Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > I’m all for socialized health care, and I think we should raise income taxes to do it. But if you want to talk about overhauling the US health care system, you can introduce the topic _without_ sniping at “conservatives.” Tell me again who were the biggest opponents to Bill Clinton’s health care reform efforts a decade ago? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312/34 "2004-06-09T20:42:55Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > And about the “patient abandonment” thing, yes, we had that too. Not that I couldn’t understand—I could. You just couldn’t leave these patients alone. But to know that if the next shift doesn’t show up (and it wasn’t uncommon for them not to show up) that you were stuck there indefinitely—well, that was awful. Oh…please let me share the story of the worker who attended my FIL’s death. He died right near the end of her shift. The Big Shot Nurse had to come and do the official pronouncement. BSN got lost (for over three hours) and the worker couldn’t leave. Helllllloooooo! He was already dead! But they tied up her evening waiting for BSN (who never called for directions or to let anyone know she was lost). I would think someone could come up with a better system. We couldn’t even call the fire department to pronounce him and get the hearse over there to transport him to the funeral home. It was a cluster fuck if I ever saw one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-healthcare-workers-on-strike/249312.md?page=1)