# home made hamburgers
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 1, 2008, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593 "2008-05-01T13:10:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/101 "2008-05-07T06:56:09Z")
I think the meatballs came to Germany ftom the North and Scandanavia, or at least from Scandinavian conquered countries.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/102 "2008-05-07T07:11:27Z")
borga borga.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/103 "2008-05-07T07:50:18Z")
sounds like a consonant shift from fasirt to faggot.
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### Author:  [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/104 "2008-05-07T11:51:56Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat]
Then you must _love_ Velveeta. So easy to use.
[Homer]Mmmm…Velveeeta…[/Homer]
[/QUOTE]
Velveeta is good for melted cheese flavor and texture. I wouldn’t eat it straight (though I did as a kid), but it’s good in various dishes, as are the American cheese slices.
I save the cheddar for eating out of hand. I love eating an apple with some cheddar.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/105 "2008-05-07T12:33:02Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
sounds like a consonant shift from fasirt to faggot.
[/QUOTE]
That’d be quite the consonant shift. It comes from the German “faschierte laibchen.”
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/106 "2008-05-07T12:49:50Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
So tell me, **pulykamell**.
What do you think of the English Faggot to Hamburger theory?
Isn’t a Faggot an early burger?
[/QUOTE]
Why would I think anything different of it than the frikadelle? They’re essentially the same thing, although a faggot is British, a frikadelle German (or Danish). They all have more in common with the Salisbury steak than the hamburger, which is a sandwich. Yes, putting it between bread and serving it with an assortment of toppings (cheese being one of the most common, something I’ve never seen on any of your meatball examples), makes it qualitatively different than any of these other dishes.
This is _exactly_ how culinary history works and how dishes migrate from one culture to another and become part of new cultures.
Now, unless you have something factual to add and are not working from your own suppositions and prejudices, can we just agree to disagree and let this drop?
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### Author:  [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/107 "2008-05-07T13:01:26Z")
One more post on this, and you two need to change your names to **Mayor McCheese** and **Hamburglar**.
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### Author:  [@flex727](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flex727)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/108 "2008-05-07T13:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=Lynn Bodoni]
I love eating an apple with some cheddar.
[/QUOTE]
Mmmm…cheddar on apple pie!
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### Author:  [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/109 "2008-05-07T14:06:43Z")
[QUOTE=flex727]
Mmmm…cheddar on apple pie!
[/QUOTE]
Cheddar cheese and a spiced apple ring are quite tasty on a plain beef hamburger patty.
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/110 "2008-05-08T20:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
That’d be quite the consonant shift. It comes from the German “faschierte laibchen.”
[/QUOTE]
Actually, you have it backwards. _Faschieren_ which meeans to finely chop meat, has an Austrian etymology and comes from the Hungarian. It’s ultimate etymology however comes from the Latin “farcire”. The Endlish equivalent _farce_ or “farce-meat” comes to us from the French.
I don’t think “farcirit” to “faggot” is too great of a leap linguistically speaking. To stuff… to faggot sticks is to stuff away an awkward load.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/111 "2008-05-08T20:28:28Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
Actually, you have it backwards. _Faschieren_ which meeans to finely chop meat, has an Austrian etymology and comes from the Hungarian.
[/quote]
Um, cite? Like I’ve been asking for all your assertions so far? Because you have it backwards. [At least according to my sources.](http://books.google.com/books?id=TM2NQ78dP2wC&pg=PA698&lpg=PA698&dq=faschierte+fasirt&source=web&ots=w8NXihSFiV&sig=NCjtWYjoY046rosgKFv_uK5rQ5Q&hl=en#PPA698,M1)
> [@](#):
>
> These lexical borrowings from German […] consist, in standard and colloquial Hungrian alone, of about 650-700 loan-words […] They entered different lexicosemantic microsystems of the receptor-language, mainly:
>
> a) […] H. _fasirt_ ‘minced-meat food’ \< Bav - Aus. G. (das) _Faschierte_ ‘id.’
from _The Uralic Languages: Description, History and Foreign Influences_
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t think “farcirit” to “faggot” is too great of a leap linguistically speaking. To stuff… to faggot sticks is to stuff away an awkward load.
“Faggot” derives from the Latin _fasces_, meaning “a bundle of wood.”
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/112 "2008-05-08T20:38:46Z")
This is crazy, **Pulykamell** , my only contention is that historically, a Hamburger was never just plain chopped meat, and had more in common with a meatball. It’s current American incarnation as plain chopped beef is our version of Hamburger, and without dispute, an important contribution to the culinary world. But I believe Hamburger is a misnomer, it should more accurately be called chopped beef. I think that even you conceded that the original had additional ingredients, besides plain beef.
One interesting thing from all of this… I have a new theory on the poorly understood etymology of faggot. From Hamburgers to faggots…
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/113 "2008-05-08T20:44:40Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
This is crazy, **Pulykamell**
[/quote]
Hey, I tried stopping it. I’ll still agree to disagree. (Plus, I don’t believe I ever contended the hamburger was only plain beef.)
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### Author:  [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/114 "2008-05-08T20:57:25Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell]
Um, cite? Like I’ve been asking for all your assertions so far? Because you have it backwards. [At least according to my sources.](http://books.google.com/books?id=TM2NQ78dP2wC&pg=PA698&lpg=PA698&dq=faschierte+fasirt&source=web&ots=w8NXihSFiV&sig=NCjtWYjoY046rosgKFv_uK5rQ5Q&hl=en#PPA698,M1)
[/QUOTE]
[PDF](http://nti.btk.pte.hu/dogitamas/BHF_FILES/pdf/113Szabo/02%20Kapitel.pdf) (page 89)
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/115 "2008-05-08T21:34:58Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew]
[PDF](http://nti.btk.pte.hu/dogitamas/BHF_FILES/pdf/113Szabo/02%20Kapitel.pdf) (page 89)
[/QUOTE]
Hey hey, a citation!
My German is, admittedly, rusty, but I’m not sure that what you’ve quoted is definitely claiming a Hungarian etymology. At any rate, we both have a cite. I’ll call it a tie, but the word simply looks and feels like a German loan word in Hungarian, rather than the other way around. ([At any rate, not an official cite, but Hungarians seem to think it comes from Austrian German, as well.](http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Tudakoz%C3%B3/Arch%C3%ADvum/2008-04-01#milyen_eredet.C5.B1_a_fas.C3.ADrt_sz.C3.B3)
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/home-made-hamburgers/447593/116 "2008-05-08T21:52:16Z")
[Oh, what the heck, one more.](http://forum.sg.hu/listazas.php3?id=1014478978&order=reverse&index=6&azonosito=medwe)
> [@](#):
>
> dasFaschierte : “fasirozott”, “fasirt”, "vag dalt hús " A francia eredetü szó (farcir) a magyarba az osztrák németből került át. Itt farcieren, faschieren formákban élt, és azt jelentette : “vagdal”, “darál”,“vagdalékkal megtölt”. Átvéteée a 19. század elsö felében történhetett.
> (Györffy Miklós : Német-magyar kulturális szótár)
Important parts translated:
das Faschierte […] A French-origin word (farcit) that came over to Hungarian through Austrian-German.
from: Györffy Miklós : _German-Hungarian Cultural Dictionary_
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