# Homebrewers and homevintners! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 25, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272 "2007-06-25T02:06:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/1 "2007-06-25T02:06:44Z")
Ok, 2 questions. A) The easy one-- what kind of beer should I brew next? I do mostly extract-- can’t do full grain in my situation. Have done a couple of IPA/ ESB style things most recently which seems safe but I want to try something different (oh, my, a bit of isinglass makes such a difference, btw. And I’ve solved my sanitation issues). Thinking about an Abbey style-- any warnings? Suggestions? Any good Duvel or Piraat clones out there? Is there any variety/recipe that would make me think “Saison” but would use ale yeast/ not lager temperature? B) I’m thinking about trying a batch of wine, from a kit. Never done wine. It’s apparently much more popular a hobby up here in Vancouver than beer brewing is, so while buying bottlecaps yesterday at my not-usual shop (it’s crazy-- dozens and dozens of winemaking shops, and ONE beer brewing shop in this large city) almost got converted by the wine zealots. Any thoughts/experience? Kits to avoid/ recommend? Varieties? Any way to shoot for something very dry or spicy rather than sweet? Do I need any special (non-beer) apparatus? ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/2 "2007-06-25T02:12:27Z")
Oooh, ooh! Does anyone know of an ORVAL CLONE? Can it be done by mortals? ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/3 "2007-06-25T02:20:09Z")
Since some of your preferences sound kinda French to me and I don’t know what they are, I’ll just recommend a partial grain Smithwicks clone. Mine never come out tasting anything like Smithwicks, but they’ve always been good. I also like a wit this time of year, and since it can get so much flavor from spices I’ve found you can get away with all-extract. No wine, just mead, so can’t help with that. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/4 "2007-06-25T02:21:09Z")
Here’s an award-winning Belgian extract recipe: 4 lbs. Mountmellick Export Ale extract 1 lb. dry rice solids 3 lbs. Laaglander Xtra light DME 1 lb. crystal malt 2 cups dark crystal malt 2 cups roasted barley 1 cup maltodextrine 2 cups brown sugar 1 oz. Bullion hops (9.0) 60 minutes 1 oz. Fuggles (3.5) 5 minutes Wyeast Belgian liquid yeast Prime with 1 cup black treacle. ---
**Author:** ![ArmenE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ArmenE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArmenE)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/5 "2007-06-25T02:24:20Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] Is there any variety/recipe that would make me think “Saison” but would use ale yeast/ not lager temperature? [/QUOTE] Saison yeast ferments at quite high temperatures. It’s a summer brew, and the yeast works well at temperatures well into the 80s. It is the beer style known above all others for fermenting at very high temperatures, so it’s as far from a lager as you can get. I brewed a saison two weeks ago using Wyeast’s Saison yeast that I’ll be bottling tomorrow. Using a liquid saison yeast is crucial for developing those spicy saison-ish flavors. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/6 "2007-06-25T02:28:59Z")
Really? For some reason I thought saison wanted to be cool. Realizing that since I’m moving in a couple of months to far away places I probably shouldn’t start a trippel or wine batch. Silenus-- I’ll keep that on the board for September. Hmm. Ok, so wit and saison suggestions? (would a wit take much time to get decent in the bottle?) Thanks for the ideas. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/7 "2007-06-25T02:33:30Z")
See? This is what happens when I have my recipe book sitting next to the computer. This one took 2nd at the Bidal Society contest in 1996: Mash: 3 lbs. Belgian Munich malt .25 lb. light crystal 6 lbs. European light extract 1 lb. dry wheat extract 1 lb. light candi sugar 1.5 oz. Perle (7.0) 70 minutes .5 oz. Kent Goldings (5.4) 15 minutes .25 oz. Saaz (4.0 ) dry hop Wyeast Belgian Abbey yeast ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/8 "2007-06-25T02:46:15Z")
Need to throw an ounce of both coriander and orange peel in that 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/9 "2007-06-25T14:52:03Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Need to throw an ounce of both coriander and orange peel in that 🙂 [/QUOTE] You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But in checking my brewbook, the only time I’ve ever used those ingredients was in a spiced ale. I wonder why I never tossed them into a Belgian? ---
**Author:** ![Bobotheoptimist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Bobotheoptimist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bobotheoptimist)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/10 "2007-06-25T15:34:55Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But in checking my brewbook, the only time I’ve ever used those ingredients was in a spiced ale. I wonder why I never tossed them into a Belgian? [/QUOTE] Maybe because you make high quality, award winning brews and I slap things together with neither rhythm nor reason ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/11 "2007-06-25T15:36:26Z")
[QUOTE=Bobotheoptimist] Maybe because you make high quality, award winning brews and I **slap things together with neither rhythm nor reason** [/QUOTE] Obviously you have mistaken me for somebody else. Haven’t you read my posts about “Jedi brewing?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/12 "2007-06-25T15:43:18Z")
I have mixed feelings about tossing in spices into a Saison. Shouldn’t the strange Belgian yeasts give some spice anyway? I think I’ve heard the Sasion Dupont, for example, doesn’t add any spices. Just ran into a Belgian-fetishist brewing site and feel inadequate now. The craziness they’ve gone through to try to make old bruins. . . Silenus-- I assume that’s a wit recipe? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homebrewers-and-homevintners/409272/13 "2007-06-25T16:16:21Z")
Actually, it placed as a **16E - Belgian Specialty** beer, specifically a Belgian Golden Ale. I don’t remember what my inspiration was for this one, exactly. I _think_ I was just playing around with stuff I had on-hand.