# Homeland--New Showtime Series (No Spoilers in OP) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 7, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863 "2011-10-07T03:27:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/61 "2011-11-29T17:40:59Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wonder if we should have episode threads. This show is really interesting and has almost no discussion, and shows where there’s almost nothing to talk about get 5 pages. Maybe that is because this first season is really more of a really long movie than actual episodes. I don’t think there is much thought going into when one part ends and the next starts - so until the first season wraps up, the little snippets don’t really add up to much and are often red herrings. So now we know the “why” of his flip to the side of the terrorists - and it seems to be directed more at one person (the VP) than the entire Western World. If that is the case, and he just wants to punish one individual, then not sure if that fits into the usual formula of mass terrorist. Perhaps we will learn more about this evil VP and start rooting for him to be killed or at least disgraced and thrown out of office. ---
**Author:** ![Meltdown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Meltdown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meltdown)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/62 "2011-11-29T19:31:35Z")
I had a thought – what if the VP was right? What if Nazir’s plan was to get Brody emotionally invested in his son, and then either kill him (the son) or knowingly put him in harm’s way? It seems like a long way to go to turn a US soldier – then again, we have seen that it has been effective. And do we really think that Nazir thought Brody was the best choice to teach his son English? You’d think he could have hired a private tutor who would be at least as effective and much more trustworthy. And – maybe it wasn’t even his son. Just idle thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/63 "2011-11-29T19:39:53Z")
Has anyone else wondered if the older guy (Carrie’s mentor) is a sympathizer with the terrorists? It’s been nagging at me for weeks now, some undercurrent there. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/64 "2011-11-29T19:43:49Z")
Nazir seemed unemotional when he entered the room where Brody was preparing the boy’s body. So it’s plausible that it’s not his son. And the whole thing with the vice-president and having Brody run for office makes the show seem like it’s supposed to be an updating of The Manchurian Candidate. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/65 "2011-11-30T11:41:09Z")
> [@wonderlust](#): > > Has anyone else wondered if the older guy (Carrie’s mentor) is a sympathizer with the terrorists? It’s been nagging at me for weeks now, some undercurrent there. Oh, wouldn’t that be a fun twist. Does anyone know how many episodes are left? My free showtime runs out soon. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/66 "2011-11-30T18:26:14Z")
> [@wonderlust](#): > > Has anyone else wondered if the older guy (Carrie’s mentor) is a sympathizer with the terrorists? It’s been nagging at me for weeks now, some undercurrent there. I started to have the same feelings several few episodes back…there were a couple of things I thought might be subtle hints, he got perturbed at Carrie for messing up his rug (when Brody’s prayer rug was a fresh plot point), something else I can’t remember right now. ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/67 "2011-11-30T19:02:36Z")
The lie detector test never did come out right for [Carrie’s mentor], and his wife is from an Arab country. He spoke some kind words in the prisoner’s language and embraced him. Now I’ve forgotten who gave the prisoner the razor blade. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/68 "2011-11-30T19:19:55Z")
> [@wonderlust](#): > > The lie detector test never did come out right for [Carrie’s mentor], and his wife is from an Arab country. His wife is from India, which does have a large minority Muslim population but it’s certainly not “an Arab country.” ---
**Author:** ![wonderlust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonderlust/32/7237_2.png) [@wonderlust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderlust)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/69 "2011-11-30T19:24:01Z")
Thank you for the correction. I would never classify India as an Arab country. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/70 "2011-11-30T20:29:46Z")
> [@Meltdown](#): > > I had a thought – what if the VP was right? What if Nazir’s plan was to get Brody emotionally invested in his son, and then either kill him (the son) or knowingly put him in harm’s way? > > It seems like a long way to go to turn a US soldier – then again, we have seen that it has been effective. And do we really think that Nazir thought Brody was the best choice to teach his son English? You’d think he could have hired a private tutor who would be at least as effective and much more trustworthy. > > And – maybe it wasn’t even his son. > > Just idle thoughts. The way the relationship and bombing was portrayed, I definitely thought it was not really Nazir’s son and that the bombing was a setup rather than it being a missile. It could be the writers and director trying to mislead us, but the kid definitely acted a lot different than you would expect if he was actually the son of someone with power and getting introduced to a new teacher. Plus, it seems very likely a son that age would have already started learning English, particularly if his supposed father was fluent. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/71 "2011-11-30T20:52:48Z")
They showed a press conference detailing the missile strike, a pentagon type briefing. I guess they could’ve faked it, along with killing and maiming a bunch of the people they live with, as well as causing destruction to their homes, but it’s far more implausible than a father showing quiet grief for his son. Besides, if he wanted to fake it being his real son, he could’ve just acted griefed. Or, you know, been legitimately griefed by having just murdered a child as part of a ruse to get a captive on his side. The idea of the bombing being a ruse is pretty ridiculously far fetched. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/72 "2011-11-30T20:59:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > …The idea of the bombing being a ruse is pretty ridiculously far fetched. Which parts of the plot aren’t? Don’t get me wrong – I’m enjoying the show enormously. But still… ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/73 "2011-11-30T21:02:12Z")
There’s nothing else in the plot that’s in the same ballpark of implausibility as: 1. Faking a bombing which kills and maims your neighbors, or possibly disciples and compatriots. 2. Destroys your property. 3. Kills a little boy as the main thrust of this deception. 4. Fake a pentagon news briefing describing the bombing. (and you know, hoping that the guy never googles the incident that has become a driving force in his life) 5. The tip-off is apparently the father not showing sufficiently noisy grief for the boy, therefore it isn’t his son, even though if that’s the entire point of this ruse, he could simply act griefed. All to have an emotional reaction from a hostage in the hopes of turning him. What else has happened in the show that’s even within orders of magnitude of that? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/74 "2011-11-30T21:07:59Z")
Aren’t you guys talking at cross purposes. You both think **theR** ’s interpretation is ridiculous don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/75 "2011-11-30T21:14:56Z")
He’s presumably saying that theR’s interpretation is fair game, because everything else in the plot is that level of ridiculous, so it could be true. I’m saying the show hasn’t even approached that level, so it would be utterly shocking if they did now. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/76 "2011-11-30T21:51:48Z")
> [@wonderlust](#): > > Now I’ve forgotten who gave the prisoner the razor blade. We don’t know yet, do we? I haven’t watched the most recent episode. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/77 "2011-11-30T23:05:10Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > There’s nothing else in the plot that’s in the same ballpark of implausibility as: > > 1. Faking a bombing which kills and maims your neighbors, or possibly disciples and compatriots. > > 2. Destroys your property. > > 3. Kills a little boy as the main thrust of this deception. > > 4. Fake a pentagon news briefing describing the bombing. (and you know, hoping that the guy never googles the incident that has become a driving force in his life) > > 5. The tip-off is apparently the father not showing sufficiently noisy grief for the boy, therefore it isn’t his son, even though if that’s the entire point of this ruse, he could simply act griefed. > > All to have an emotional reaction from a hostage in the hopes of turning him. > > What else has happened in the show that’s even within orders of magnitude of that? They don’t have to fake the briefing. They can control what Brody has access to, so they could easily make him think a real briefing from the past took place at a different time. If he was a prisoner for years they could easily tell him a false date that matched a real missile strike. They already supposedly made him think he killed a fellow Marine. Again, the father spoke fluent English yet the child apparently didn’t even understand a simple greeting from what I recall. Something was off. There are plenty of other equally implausible things that have happened. If I get some time I’ll list some. It’s a good show, but it is fiction and I think people have different ideas of implausibility. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/78 "2011-11-30T23:41:35Z")
For implausibility – how about turning both POWs into traitors without at least one of them knowing about the other? Making one of them _think_ he killed the other and even forcing him to bury the body, without it actually happening? Aside from the questionable wisdom of forcing one to kill the other (which – how do you do that??) as a tactic to earn loyalty, how do you _fake_ that? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/79 "2011-11-30T23:53:11Z")
Regarding that bombing, perhaps it was a happy coincidence and Nazir took advantage of it to make Brody think the kid was killed as a result? And BTW, I wondered why Brody didn’t take advantage of the chaos after the bombing to escape. I know that he was probably no where near any Americans, but he might have been able at least to call the US government. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863/80 "2011-12-01T01:03:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Regarding that bombing, perhaps it was a happy coincidence and Nazir took advantage of it to make Brody think the kid was killed as a result? And BTW, I wondered why Brody didn’t take advantage of the chaos after the bombing to escape. I know that he was probably no where near any Americans, but he might have been able at least to call the US government. It was my impression that Brody was already 'turned" by the time he was at the house. He was there in part as a test of his loyalty and also perhaps as a comfortable place to wait while they set the stage for his ultimate operation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-new-showtime-series-no-spoilers-in-op/598863.md?page=5)