# Homeland security deports British twenty-somethings based on "joke" tweets **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223 "2012-01-30T20:35:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/241 "2012-02-02T07:41:22Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Not to sound redundant, but tweeting that you intend to party in America does NOT “appear to threaten America”. One said he’d ‘destroy’ America. That appears to be a threat. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/242 "2012-02-02T07:47:18Z")
John Mace - it seems you may have missed your true vocation. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/243 "2012-02-02T08:49:05Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > One said he’d ‘destroy’ America. That appears to be a threat. End of story. So I take it you think John Mace really wants to have sex with the Tweeting Tourist Two? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/244 "2012-02-02T09:17:35Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > As a reminder, the quote you’re referring to is my support of the practice of denying entry to travellers, practiced by every country all day, every day. I support this because I know how much bad shit tries to get across our borders. You guys might be thinking just in terms of terrorists, but I’m thinking of all the illegal immigrants, drugs, weapons, sex slaves, dirty money, and everything else that tries to find a home here. I _want_ my government erring on the side of caution and I expect other governments to do the same. Please do not try to claim that the role of border control covering more than just terrorism is some sort of arcane knowledge only you have considered. The reason terrorism has been mentioned here is because that seems to be the issue TSA/DHS have latched onto by focussing on the “destroy America” issue. Alternatively, which category of your list do you think the couple on question fell into, that they should be stopped and refused entry by the TSA Also, congratulations for pointing out the DHS budget is $43 billion. Unfortunately, you’re wrong (“The FY 2012 budget request for DHS is $57.0 billion in total funding” - [http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/budget-bib-fy2012-overview.pdf](http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/budget-bib-fy2012-overview.pdf)) There’s also the rather obvious problem that the DHS is supported by the NSA (who operate Echelon, budget classified, last known was 1998 27 billion, estimates now range from 50 - 80 billion) and the TSA (budget $8 billion). So, a security system that costs $100 billion+, but generates a false positive because of an inane tweet. Serious value for money there, guys. My favourite comment of yours was this: “Now _I’m_ just guessing here, but I betcha the information they uncovered was that the pair were likely to overstay.” Well, at least you acknowledge it’s a guess. Just how did you decide that was the likely scenario then? Seriously, between your “I’m guessing but I betcha” and John’s “we do not know all the facts therefore no criticism can be made”, this is becoming a pretty farcical thread. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/245 "2012-02-02T09:26:01Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > One said he’d ‘destroy’ America. That appears to be a threat. End of story. So why in the interview/interrogation with the DHS (or whoever it was) could they not work out that they didn’t actually want to destroy anything? Personally I think it is one of three possibilities: 1. Something we do not have the facts for and thus can’t really claim. 2. It all kicked off in the interrogation and they got refused entry for being dicks. 3. DHS people were dicks and then refused to back down so as to save face. Personally I think 2 or 3 are the most likely scenarios. My personal theory is 3 but that is, with the available evidence, just a theory. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/246 "2012-02-02T09:28:23Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > One said he’d ‘destroy’ America. That appears to be a threat. End of story. I note that in this [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14657377&postcount=4) you said: > [@I had a telephone inteview!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-had-a-telephone-inteview/609181/4): > > Knock 'em dead Why are you inciting violence? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/247 "2012-02-02T11:58:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > One said he’d ‘destroy’ America. That appears to be a threat. End of story. No, it doesn’t appear to be a threat. If it did, he’d be in Guantanimo Bay or somewhere similar. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/248 "2012-02-02T12:06:00Z")
“Have a blast” is presumably a Conspiracy offence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/249 "2012-02-02T14:13:40Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > No, it doesn’t appear to be a threat. > > If it did, he’d be in Guantanimo Bay or somewhere similar. There are less than 200 people in Guantanamo. Are you saying there are only 200 people in the world who appear to be a threat to the US right now? Exactly how many people have the Obama administration sent to Guantanamo? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/250 "2012-02-02T15:02:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Am I the only one who thinks the homeland security agents in question should be up on criminal charges for kidnapping? I’m sure there are one or two others. But why don’t you leave these sorts of things to the professionals, eh? > [@SciFiSam](#): > > Flying to LA via Canada from London could not possibly be considered suspicious, as that’s one of the main routes airlines take when not flying direct. It’s a far more common route than flying via somewhere else in the US and it’s much cheaper than flying direct. If flying via Canada raises a flag, then the DHS will have to investigate HUGE numbers of people flying in from London. > > As for overstaying… I don’t know why you think America is so great that British people would really want to overstay. Unemployment here’s roughly the same, we have a much better social security net and free healthcare, and their family’s here (I don’t know about their job/study/home status). They’re not refugees from a famine-stricken warzone. You’re right, flying through Canada isn’t suspicious. But in the story presented, the Brits were driving across the border after vacationing in Canada. They weren’t on a layover. You’re aware that we’re talking about **elbow** ’s story of a Niagra Falls trip in the 90s, right? Secondly, people overstay for all kinds of reasons. There are about 300,000 cases per year. They can’t all be Mexicans. > [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > that seems to be the issue TSA/DHS have latched onto by focussing on the “destroy America” issue. Alternatively, which category of your list do you think the couple on question fell into, that they should be stopped and refused entry by the TSA > > Also, congratulations for pointing out the DHS budget is $43 billion. Unfortunately, you’re wrong (“The FY 2012 budget request for DHS is $57.0 billion in total funding” - [http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/budget-bib-fy2012-overview.pdf](http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/budget-bib-fy2012-overview.pdf)) There’s also the rather obvious problem that the DHS is supported by the NSA (who operate Echelon, budget classified, last known was 1998 27 billion, estimates now range from 50 - 80 billion) and the TSA (budget $8 billion). So, a security system that costs $100 billion+, but generates a false positive because of an inane tweet. Serious value for money there, guys. Oh, for fuck’s sake. First, saying stupid shit like “that seems to be the issue TSA/DHS have latched onto”, “refused entry by the TSA”, and “DHS is supported by NSA and TSA” and then adding their budgets together marks you as so ignorant of the US government, its laws, and its procedures, that you really should go sit at the kiddie table and let the adults talk. Second, it was $200 billion in your first post, and now it’s not even $150 billion. Yet you presume to correct my math? Third, I can’t even point out how dumb it is to imply that that $100 billion all went toward stopping this one Brit and his girlfriend, and then claim we’re not getting our money’s worth. It’s as stupid as saying “A $100 billion budget, and these guys have to get coffee from Dunkin’ Donuts.” And this is in the same post that started off with how you realize that the $100 billion goes toward more than just terrorism border security. Christ, how do you debate somebody who thinks the TSA does border security? That adds TSA’s budget to DHS’s budget, which is stupid by itself, but fails to realize that they don’t even feature in the story? That thinks the NSA is subordinate to DHS, or thinks that the NSA’s sole budget goes toward scanning Twitter? Your post reads as the equivalent of “If Elvis was really assassinated, how come the moon is full every night? Good job, NASA.” > [@Candyman74](#): > > No, it doesn’t appear to be a threat. > > If it did, he’d be in Guantanimo Bay or somewhere similar. Again, you just made that up. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/251 "2012-02-02T15:19:38Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > You’re right, flying through Canada isn’t suspicious. But in the story presented, the Brits were driving across the border after vacationing in Canada. They weren’t on a layover. You’re aware that we’re talking about **elbow** ’s story of a Niagra Falls trip in the 90s, right? > > Secondly, people overstay for all kinds of reasons. There are about 300,000 cases per year. They can’t all be Mexicans. No, I didn’t realise that. Looking again, I should have - my bad. But I doubt overstaying was considered a risk for the Tweeting Two. (Can’t be arsed to write both of their names every time). ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/252 "2012-02-02T15:21:49Z")
The only thing more ludicrous than the original decision is that there are people in this thread rabidly defending it. If I say that England is “the bomb” should I be arrested? What about if I tweet that “I am totally going to wreck this dude I just met”? I mean, that’s clearly a threat of violence, right? Then if he also tweets, “I just met this girl and I am totally going to hit that,” he should be deported too, yes? As I said before, this is ludicrous. We supposedly employ actual human beings with actual brains in our security institutions, and one of the things that a human with a brain can do is to look at something that is clearly and obviously just a slang term being used by a kid about to go on a trip, and say, “You know, even though this contains the word ‘destroy’, it is clearly and obviously just a slang term being used by a kid about to go on a trip, and it would be completely ludicrous to spend time, energy, and resources on taking any sort of action about this whatsoever.” If we’re going to start banning people from the country for using slang expressions containing the words “destroy”, “bomb”, “blast”, etc., we might as well just turn the whole thing over to the computers and admit that security in this country is based on flowcharts and algorithms instead of rational thought. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/253 "2012-02-02T15:25:20Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > why don’t you leave these sorts of things to the professionals, eh? Like the DHS? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/254 "2012-02-02T15:59:17Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake. First, saying stupid shit like “that seems to be the issue TSA/DHS have latched onto”, “refused entry by the TSA”, and “DHS is supported by NSA and TSA” and then adding their budgets together marks you as so ignorant of the US government, its laws, and its procedures, that you really should go sit at the kiddie table and let the adults talk. **Chessic Sense** , please dial it back a bit. We’re not in the Pit here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/255 "2012-02-02T16:09:55Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > The only thing more ludicrous than the original decision is that there are people in this thread rabidly defending it. > > If I say that England is “the bomb” should I be arrested? What about if I tweet that “I am totally going to wreck this dude I just met”? I mean, that’s clearly a threat of violence, right? Then if he also tweets, “I just met this girl and I am totally going to hit that,” he should be deported too, yes? No one was arrested or deported in this case. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/256 "2012-02-02T16:13:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No one was arrested or deported in this case. Oh, burn. You just destroyed my entire argument with your display of blazing logic. Feel free to replace every instance of “arrested” or “deported” with “banned from entering the country,” Lieutenant Nitpick. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/257 "2012-02-02T16:23:02Z")
But they weren’t ‘banned from entering the country’, which implies they can never return. They were refused entry. One time only. At least get that straight. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/258 "2012-02-02T16:23:56Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > upid shit like “that seems to be the issue TSA/DHS have latched onto”, “refused entry by the TSA”, and “DHS is supported by NSA and TSA” and then adding their budgets together marks you as so ignorant of the US government, its laws, and its procedures, that you really should go sit at the kiddie table and let the adults talk. > > Second, it was $200 billion in your first post, and now it’s not even $150 billion. Yet you presume to correct my math? > > Third, I can’t even point out how dumb it is to imply that that $100 billion all went toward stopping this one Brit and his girlfriend, and then claim we’re not getting our money’s worth. It’s as stupid as saying “A $100 billion budget, and these guys have to get coffee from Dunkin’ Donuts.” And this is in the same post that started off with how you realize that the $100 billion goes toward more than just terrorism border security. > > Christ, how do you debate somebody who thinks the TSA does border security? That adds TSA’s budget to DHS’s budget, which is stupid by itself, but fails to realize that they don’t even feature in the story? That thinks the NSA is subordinate to DHS, or thinks that the NSA’s sole budget goes toward scanning Twitter? > > Your post reads as the equivalent of “If Elvis was really assassinated, how come the moon is full every night? Good job, NASA.” 1. The DHS, TSA and NSA are the relevant government agencies for this affair. International monitoring of web traffic is done by the NSA, who then coordinate with the DHS flagging what they see as potential threats in incoming visitors to the DHS, who in turn advise/instruct the TSA on flagged cases. 2. The total budgets for these agencies is unknown. While the DHS publishes main figures, a number of items of expenditure are withheld as being confidential. The NSA’s budget has been classified for a decade. That means that the margin for guesstimates for the total ranges from 100 Billion up to whatever figure you care to think. 3. Considering that level of expenditure, plus the very free rein they are given in terms of civil liberties, you would hope they were a bit less farcical than this episode suggests. Is that clear enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/259 "2012-02-02T16:25:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No one was arrested or deported in this case. Again I ask: Why not? If they truly were a danger to our country, if they truly planned to destroy our country, why the hell were they not arrested? ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223/260 "2012-02-02T16:44:09Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > 1. The DHS, TSA and NSA are the relevant government agencies for this affair. Try again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-deports-british-twenty-somethings-based-on-joke-tweets/611223.md?page=14)