# Homeland security needs a mascot??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394 "2004-08-11T18:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/21 "2004-08-11T20:24:53Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > “The War On Terror” How about _The War Against Terror_, otherwise his kid’s gonna have to be oblivious to twot. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/22 "2004-08-11T20:31:34Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I like how the life expectancy is listed as “12-12 years”. If your dog lives to 13, do you have to shoot it? Can’t happen. On the eve of the dog’s 13th birthday, its head explodes. Tom Ridge put the implant in himself. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/23 "2004-08-11T20:37:21Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > How about _The War Against Terror_, otherwise his kid’s gonna have to be oblivious to twot. Ah, gotcha ya. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/24 "2004-08-11T20:38:19Z")
As Homeland Security mascots go, a dog makes sense. You want the mascot to be a goiod example and it’s a lot easier to train a dog to sit around and not commit terrorist acts than, say, a cat. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/25 "2004-08-11T20:39:04Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > How about _The War Against Terror_, otherwise his kid’s gonna have to be oblivious to twot. :smack: You are of course correct. I was destracted by all of the twats in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/26 "2004-08-11T21:21:36Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Not an ostrich? _snort_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/27 "2004-08-11T21:29:04Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > What’s your point? That a dog which was bred in the United States shouldn’t be called an American Shepherd? Are you always this hopelessly pedantic, or do you save it up to try to make your more obscure points? Truth is that the breed has several alternate names: North American shepherd, American shepherd, and even “miniature Australian shepherd.” We need clarity on just what kind of dog this mascot is. I’ve seen the picture posted of the (North) American Shephard and, frankly, it’s seems a bit puny to me. Could they mean the [The American Tundra Shepherd](http://www.americantundrashepherd.com/) ? This one looks much more security minded. ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/28 "2004-08-11T21:31:22Z")
Great! Just what we need. More morons wanting to buy Miniature Aussies. We’re trying hard to protect the Australian Shepherd as a breed - but you know, the word on the street is that “mini” and “toy” versions sell better… and now this! YAY! More minis! More people who breed down the Aussie and turn it into a “new breed”. It’s not recognized by anyone, really, at ALL yet. There are some fledgling clubs, yeah… but some of these so-called North American Shepherds are still registered as Australian Shepherds with AKC and ASCA… and GAH. It’s a soapbox issue for me. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/29 "2004-08-11T21:45:54Z")
They already got one. A big Texas Turkey! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/30 "2004-08-11T21:46:01Z")
I was thinking it’s great that not only did Australia support the US in the Iraq, er, campaign, now Australia’s dogs can support the War on Terror! Marvellous! John Howard will be _delighted._ ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/31 "2004-08-11T21:53:00Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > Great! > > Just what we need. More morons wanting to buy Miniature Aussies. > > We’re trying hard to protect the Australian Shepherd as a breed - but you know, the word on the street is that “mini” and “toy” versions sell better… and now this! YAY! More minis! More people who breed down the Aussie and turn it into a “new breed”. It’s not recognized by anyone, really, at ALL yet. There are some fledgling clubs, yeah… but some of these so-called North American Shepherds are still registered as Australian Shepherds with AKC and ASCA… and GAH. > > It’s a soapbox issue for me. I can see why you’d be upset at the threat to a great dog. I’ve met several Aussies and they’re great dogs. But how is what these people are doing any different from the process that’s making the Jack Russel Terrier into an accepted dog? Or the Canaan Dog? ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/32 "2004-08-11T22:20:04Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > I can see why you’d be upset at the threat to a great dog. I’ve met several Aussies and they’re great dogs. > > But how is what these people are doing any different from the process that’s making the Jack Russel Terrier into an accepted dog? Or the Canaan Dog? You’re right - it’s not an totally different process… but there are, well, differences. Many breeds, like, say newly accepted into the Sporting Group Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers which are recognized by various other international kennel clubs are a well-documented breed that goes back quite a few generations and has kept, through its own breed club, an extensive “stud book”. Tollers, for a couple of centuries, have been tollers, registered as tollers in their own breed club, a distinctive breed. A toller isn’t a lab. It’s not a small golden. It’s a Toller. Its breed characteristics are unique - unlike ANY other retrieving breed, it actually tolls ducks. It looks significantly different from its possible “parent breeds”. The stock being bred goes back 20+ generations of recognizable, standard-meeting dogs. Same for the JRT, the Canaan, and a wide number of Eastern European herding breeds that are now coming to America and gaining popularity. Let’s not forget that the Aussie itself was only added to the AKC in the last 8 years or so! THAT SAID - ASCA, the parent breed club, had documented generations after generations (a century’s worth) and the choice to apply for AKC recognition was actually a hotly debated one. ASCA still holds its own conformation, herding, tracking, agility and obedience programs! We participate actively in those with my Aussie. So - the Mini Aussie, or the NAShepherd is actually mostly a “size variety” of the standard, good old Australian Shepherd. It’s not a new breed. For it to become one, you’d have to have years and years of steady breeding from recognized, well kept studbooks and so forth. Right now as it stands, “minis” are registered with their new parent club… but the parents of these dogs are registered as Aussies by AKC, ASCA, and the NASDR… It’s not unlike claiming the “labradoodle” is a breed - it’s not… yet… because the parents of the puppies are a lab and a poodle, not labradoodles themselves (though some are trying this, and failing at producing puppies that meet this new breed “standard”.) So, the mini aussie is a size variety of the australian shepherd. There’s no real reason to miniaturize the aussie - our breed standard already allows for a great variation in size and even in type! There are people out there breeding mini and toy aussies because the size thing is a big seller nowadays (think of all the tea-cup varieties out there… YIKES) and are breeding for size above all. I have seen toys who are KNOWN to have been bred out of a standard aussie and a pomeranian - so they are mutts being paraded as “purebred”… it’s just not the case YET. Not until there’s uniformity in the “breed”. It’s not even a new breed, it’s just a size variety! Ack! Anyway. Soapbox is now fully worn down 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/33 "2004-08-11T22:34:31Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > 🆒 [http://www.brevard.edu/science/students/pics/kittle\_kismet\_snarling.jpg](http://www.brevard.edu/science/students/pics/kittle_kismet_snarling.jpg) :eek: :dubious: 😃 Stop it, you damned emoticon abuser. Can’t you post something with 4 emoticons? ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/34 "2004-08-11T22:37:36Z")
> [@Elenfair](#): > > So, the mini aussie is a size variety of the australian shepherd. There’s no real reason to miniaturize the aussie - our breed standard already allows for a great variation in size and even in type! There are people out there breeding mini and toy aussies because the size thing is a big seller nowadays (think of all the tea-cup varieties out there… YIKES) and are breeding for size above all. I have seen toys who are KNOWN to have been bred out of a standard aussie and a pomeranian - so they are mutts being paraded as “purebred”… it’s just not the case YET. Not until there’s uniformity in the “breed”. It’s not even a new breed, it’s just a size variety! Ack! > > Anyway. Soapbox is now fully worn down 😉 I’m highly prejudiced, myself. (small yippy things aren’t dogs, they’re rats with delusions.) I can’t understand wanting to own a dog you can’t scrtich without having to bend over. So, while I can accept intellectually that there is a market for toy dogs… I just don’t quite believe it. 😃 Anyways, keep up the good work on your soapbox! ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/35 "2004-08-11T22:49:45Z")
[Homeland Defence mascot foils invasion by terrorist in invisible suit.](http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tg.pirie/news/news11.html) ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/36 "2004-08-12T00:47:35Z")
Prediction: the “American Shepherd” ( :rolleyes: ) will become the MUST HAVE dog for idiot suburbanites, and puppy mills will start churning out inbred mutants for stupid people to buy and fail to train. And as \*Lassie \*ruined the Collie, and Eisenhower ruined the Cocker Spaniel, the “American Shepherd” ( :rolleyes: ) will be the next breed to be utterly and completely destroyed by the AKC. ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/37 "2004-08-12T01:22:14Z")
Home land defence mascot dog: " Woof, whine, huff, pant" Leader of the free world: “What’s that boy? Timmy’s fallen into the old well”? Home land defence mascot: " **Woof, whine, huff, pant!**! Leader of the free world: “OK boy, Just let me finish this story I’m reading to the kids…” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/38 "2004-08-12T01:27:07Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > I like how the life expectancy is listed as “12-12 years”. If your dog lives to 13, do you have to shoot it? If it dies before it turns twelve, do you get a refund? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/39 "2004-08-12T01:35:19Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > What the hell is an american shepard anyway? Are they creating dog breeds now? A German Shepherd, tough and cool as they are, might bring all manner of unpleasant Nazi connotations, and we can’t have that. Did anybody else, before opening this thread, wonder if the mascot was going to be Big Brother? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2004, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394/40 "2004-08-12T01:52:24Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > I don’t know about you…but I think it’s fine for my 10 year old to be oblivious to twat. Maybe I was just an early bloomer, but I saw my first _Playboy_ when I was in kindergarten, and from that moment on, I was _very_ interested in twat. 🆒 If I ever have a son, and he **doesn’t** show an interest in twat by the time he’s 10, I’m gonna have a paternity test run on him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeland-security-needs-a-mascot/259394.md?page=3)