# Homeless immigrant with no money to her name spends $50 on pizzas, what? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 9, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856 "2018-05-09T11:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/81 "2018-05-13T22:12:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Maybe he’d be happy if barrels of cold gruel were delivered rather than food stamps. Cold? You expect taxpayers to pay for refridgerated transport of calorie-dense (but not TOO dense for the fatties) food slurry? ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/82 "2018-05-13T22:38:24Z")
Some people will not be happy until any manner of food assistance is limited to a rat turd and a cracker. A week. And these are the same people who think that only their labor has any value. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/83 "2018-05-14T00:02:28Z")
What do food stamps have to with this? The $50 was a gift. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/84 "2018-05-14T07:28:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Cold? You expect taxpayers to pay for refridgerated transport of calorie-dense (but not TOO dense for the fatties) food slurry? Who said refrigerated? I understood **running coach** to mean outdoors-that-day temperature. Depending on where and when, that might actually mean frozen or it might mean above body temp. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/85 "2018-05-14T09:30:34Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Considering her situation, it’s a bit of a use it or lose it. She may be able to hold onto it, but it would be easy to steal it from her in those conditions. You were the only one to mention this important point. She may have been smart to spend the money ASAP. If she’d stashed it in her shoe, waiting to put it into a Vanguard Index Fund (or whatever **Asuka** thinks she should have done with the money), it would likely have been stolen before she ever got to her stockbroker’s. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/86 "2018-05-14T11:11:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > This is how I felt about it too. Why shouldn’t she give her kids (and herself) something they want? because they’re poor and need the money for food the next day and the day after that. That’s the thing about food. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And if she HAD taken her kids to see a movie, she would also have been criticized for that. :rolleyes: Movies have no nutritional value so I’m not sure why you think that would be different than wasting money on pizza. Most people have had economic hard times in their lives and understand that wasting money makes thiings worse. How can you justify an hour of restaurant pizza against going hungry days later? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/87 "2018-05-14T11:18:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How can you justify an hour of restaurant pizza against going hungry days later? You deal with hunger days later days later. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/88 "2018-05-14T12:42:47Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Bottom line is that all our lives are subsidized by other tax payers… I don’t think that is true. In a welfare state, by definition somebody has to pay in more than they get back in benefits, or the system isn’t sustainable. That’s why 47% or so of the US doesn’t pay federal income tax. The 53% are the ones keeping the system running. It works the same with infrastructure. I pay gas taxes (in my state) to maintain the roads, state taxes to support the duties of the state government, and federal taxes to do all the things the federal government does. I don’t get back as much as I pay - if everyone got back as much as they put in, there wouldn’t be anything to spend on those who don’t put in. So the notion that everyone is being subsidized by everyone else and so nobody gets to complain about subsidizing anyone doesn’t fly. Overall and on average, I am not being subsidized. Overall and on average, someone who is dependent on welfare or charity is being subsidized. I support myself and my wife and my family, and, to a lesser degree, everyone who is on welfare. Those who live on charity don’t support anyone, least of all me. It is a matter of degree, of course - there is a difference between complaining when someone wastes the money they have been given on things they don’t need, and saying that they should be left in the street to die. IME the SDMB doesn’t always do very well in recognizing that difference, but it is real nonetheless. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/89 "2018-05-14T12:51:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So the notion that everyone is being subsidized by everyone else and so nobody gets to complain about subsidizing anyone doesn’t fly. Overall and on average, I am not being subsidized. Overall and on average, someone who is dependent on welfare or charity is being subsidized. You have a point here, but if we look at the spectrum of income, with the indigent on one side and the billionaires on the other, it also isn’t fair to say that at some point the subsidies phase out, and then everyone richer than that cutoff is treated the same by government policies. In a very general sense, I think it’s more accurate to say that at some point, subsidies phase out, and further along, special preferences phase in. As is often cited, Warren Buffett pays a lower percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary; this is best explained by saying that neither of them are receving subsidies, but the more wealthy person has special advantages due to government policies that means that by proportion of income, the secretary is doing more to support the subsidies for other parts of society. I think it is perfectly fair to compare the value of these special favors for the wealthy with the cost of the subsidies for the poor. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/90 "2018-05-14T13:01:16Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen anybody eat pizza in moderation. It’s the kind of food you don’t so much eat as assault. You know? Yes! I seriously thought I was the only one with this problem. (I had plenty to say to the OP, but it looks like the others have it under control) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/91 "2018-05-14T14:31:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > You have a point here, but if we look at the spectrum of income, with the indigent on one side and the billionaires on the other, it also isn’t fair to say that at some point the subsidies phase out, and then everyone richer than that cutoff is treated the same by government policies. > > In a very general sense, I think it’s more accurate to say that at some point, subsidies phase out, and further along, special preferences phase in. As is often cited, Warren Buffett pays a lower percentage of his income in taxes than his secretary; this is best explained by saying that neither of them are receving subsidies, but the more wealthy person has special advantages due to government policies that means that by proportion of income, the secretary is doing more to support the subsidies for other parts of society. > > I think it is perfectly fair to compare the value of these special favors for the wealthy with the cost of the subsidies for the poor. That’s sort of an apples-to-oranges comparison, if we are talking about being subsidized vs. not being subsidized, or whether or not a welfare system can be sustained. Proportion of income is sort of a red herring. Is the amount of money you are paying into the system more, or less, than zero? If I am making a million dollars a year and paying $150K in, and my secretary makes $100K and pays $40K, I am supporting a lot more people than she is, therefore I am doing more to support the subsidies than my secretary. The question “should capital gains be taxed as ordinary income” (which is mostly why Warren Buffett pays what he does and his secretary pays what she does) is a related but different question from “who is doing more to support the system”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/92 "2018-05-14T14:51:39Z")
Poor people often make poor choices. This lady’s choice doesn’t even crack the top 100 bad financial decisions I’ve seen poor people make. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/93 "2018-05-14T15:04:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > because they’re poor and need the money for food the next day and the day after that. That’s the thing about food. > > Movies have no nutritional value so I’m not sure why you think that would be different than wasting money on pizza. > > Most people have had economic hard times in their lives and understand that wasting money makes thiings worse. How can you justify an hour of restaurant pizza against going hungry days later? I’m honestly at a loss for what ready-to-eat staples she should have stocked up on instead. Convenience foods are not any cheaper than a $5 large pizza, and for all we know she saved enough of it that they had food to eat tomorrow. And honestly, she and her kids have had lots of hungry days and they will likely have some more. If they all ended up deported back home, they may well never have the opportunity to eat American pizza again. It’s quite possible this will stand out as the highlight of their childhood. Do you really have no sympathy for a mom wanting to wow her kids, wanting them to have something pretty amazing? ETA: She possibly could have bought three days of bread and peanut butter, a knife and some paper plates. But if she does that, no one will help her. If she doesn’t, someone would probably give her something about on part with bread and peanut butter. So maybe you think it’s more important to avoid begging for three more days than to wow her kids, but in my mind, as a parent, that’s putting my pride ahead of what’s best for my kids. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/94 "2018-05-14T15:32:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Poor people often make poor choices. This lady’s choice doesn’t even crack the top 100 bad financial decisions I’ve seen poor people make. Rich people make their own share of mistakes. The world is full of rich people who inherited their money and pissed it away, or got rich, then pissed it away. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/95 "2018-05-14T15:40:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Rich people make their own share of mistakes. Absolutely true. While people who grew up poor often don’t have the same opportunity to learn good money management skills (especially in a do-what-you-see-in-childhood sort of way), middle-class and wealthy people also make many money mistakes. But theirs are often far less costly in the long run, either because they have a cushion, a good salary coming in, or relatives they can rely on to help them out if they need temporary help. The _same_ mistake (or recurring bad habit) will often hurt someone who is already poor or with low income much much worse than it will hurt someone with more money. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/96 "2018-05-14T16:16:45Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I’m honestly at a loss for what ready-to-eat staples she should have stocked up on instead. Convenience foods are not any cheaper than a $5 large pizza, and for all we know she saved enough of it that they had food to eat tomorrow. > > And honestly, she and her kids have had lots of hungry days and they will likely have some more. If they all ended up deported back home, they may well never have the opportunity to eat American pizza again. It’s quite possible this will stand out as the highlight of their childhood. Do you really have no sympathy for a mom wanting to wow her kids, wanting them to have something pretty amazing? > > ETA: She possibly could have bought three days of bread and peanut butter, a knife and some paper plates. But if she does that, no one will help her. If she doesn’t, someone would probably give her something about on part with bread and peanut butter. So maybe you think it’s more important to avoid begging for three more days than to wow her kids, but in my mind, as a parent, that’s putting my pride ahead of what’s best for my kids. The thing to remember here is not just that she needed to buy cheap food but that she needed to buy cheap food that required no preparation. Note that in your example she would have had to buy a knife and (disposable!) plates. Were those even options? Were those a better use of her food money? Pizza is immediately consumable by hand. The “immediate” and “by hand” elements are important in this instance - she needed to feed herself and her family right away, without any kitchen facilities or even a goddamn butter knife. She could have bought, say, McDonalds hamburgers as well but that presumes 1) the presence of such fast food restaurants in the immediate vicinity, and 2) that people wouldn’t be bitching about that too. So, again - what do the people who think she shouldn’t have bought pizza think she should have done _that she **could** have done_? Because a lot of the responses seem to boil down to “not be poor and homeless”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/97 "2018-05-14T18:11:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So, again - what do the people who think she shouldn’t have bought pizza think she should have done _that she **could** have done_? Because a lot of the responses seem to boil down to “not be poor and homeless”. It’s hard to say without knowing more about the circumstances. She spent some of the $50 on a cab to get to the pizza place, but there is no way to tell from the article if there was anything resembling a grocery store in the same vicinity. Plus I can’t tell if she was getting fed already - the article says that she made coffee while waiting in line inside the processing center, which I don’t quite understand. But it’s hard to say. If it were me, and if it were possible, I would have bought cheese, fruit, crackers, stuff like that, and squirreled the rest of the money away in my sock. But I’m a cheapskate. I’d rather eat cheap now and have $10 (or whatever) for when I need it more. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/98 "2018-05-14T18:37:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Proportion of income is sort of a red herring. Is the amount of money you are paying into the system more, or less, than zero? If I am making a million dollars a year and paying $150K in, and my secretary makes $100K and pays $40K, I am supporting a lot more people than she is, therefore I am doing more to support the subsidies than my secretary. The boat has long sailed as to the question of determining tax burdens as a function of percentage of income. To illustrate with an extreme example, if you make a million dollars and you pay $41k in taxes, and I make $45K and pay $40k in taxes, the arguments about who is doing more to support others is pretty absurd. OTOH, there are years where a guy working at McDonalds has paid more income taxes than, say, General Electric. Which is another example of policies that favor the rich, without being subsidies in and of themselves. > [@](#): > > The question “should capital gains be taxed as ordinary income” (which is mostly why Warren Buffett pays what he does and his secretary pays what she does) is a related but different question from “who is doing more to support the system”. But I am raising the different but related question. I said so in my post. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/99 "2018-05-14T18:58:07Z")
> [@skyr](#): > > Why should we care about the “morale” of poor people in wealthy countries while many less fortunate people in the world are fighting just for survival? Because the poor people who’s morale we are talking about are fellow citizens. > [@skyr](#): > > Complaining that society owes you a free birthday cake because being poor is demoralizing is **literally a First World problem**. It’s a good thing no one is complaining about that; the only complaint I see is from people that want to stop birthday cakes from being bought. > [@skyr](#): > > Nobody is saying that poor people shouldn’t have nice things, just that it is not reasonable to expect taxpayers to fund it for them no questions asked. If you think poor people need and deserve birthday cakes, I don’t think anyone would object to you setting up a private charity to give free birthday cakes to the underprivileged. Once the money is in their hands, it’s their money. That’s why your employers can’t tell you how to spend the money they pay you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2018, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856/100 "2018-05-14T23:04:04Z")
> [@skyr](#): > > If your biggest worry is making sure your kid has a happy birthday and not making sure your kid doesn’t literally fucking starve to death, you’re actually doing pretty damn well. If **your** biggest worry is that people are spending food stamps to buy a birthday cake for their kid once a year, then I’d say you’re doing pretty damn well too. :rolleyes: (And this was not beggars spending the money on drugs – they spent it on…food. Imagine that!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeless-immigrant-with-no-money-to-her-name-spends-50-on-pizzas-what/813856.md?page=6)