# Homeopathy makes me stabby **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 2, 2015, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083 "2015-05-02T08:58:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/21 "2015-05-04T16:28:32Z")
[quote=“SecretaryofEvil, post:7, topic:719083”] Relevant clip from Futurama that sums up my opinions on the subject. [/QUOTE] Nice. I bet they got a few angry letters for that one. ---
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/22 "2015-05-04T16:41:01Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Homeopathic Murder > > 1. Take a vat of pure water. Wave a sword through it a couple of times. Now the memory of the sword is in the water. > 2. Get enemy to drink the water. > 3. Profit??? Like cures like so all you’ve done is cure your enemy of any sword injuries they might already be afflicted with. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/23 "2015-05-04T16:53:17Z")
> [@grude](#): > > There is no damn doubt herbs can contain chemicals that effect the human body, try some opium poppies or hemlock if you doubt that. > > I’m sure massages and adjustments from a chiro at least have a possibility of helping back pain. > > Acupuncture? Sure sticking a shit load of needles into your skin probably can effect pain tolerance etc. > > But fucking homeopathy? ITS FUCKING WATER! I want to grab anyone buying this shit and shake them and scream you can’t be this fucking stupid! > > I’m convinced most business comes from uninformed people who don’t know what it means, they see the jargon and words like arnica and the packaging which intentionally apes real meds and assume it must work. It is like a cargo cult version of medicine. > > This is the one issue that eats at me, profiting from ignorance. I’ve written a letter to the [Minnesota Board of Veterinarian Medicine](http://mn.gov/health-licensing-boards/veterinary-medicine/) about [a vet who is a homeopath.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755679) (2nd link goes to Great Debate about her). I sincerely want her license to be revoked. If it isn’t, my next plan is to start appealing to local law makers to amend the law to make it illegal to have a practice where the two could be “confused”. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/24 "2015-05-04T16:59:50Z")
Tap water contains everything medicine known to homeopathy-drink up! ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/25 "2015-05-04T17:49:01Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Tap water contains everything medicine known to homeopathy-drink up! According to homeopathy, increasing the dilution increases the potency. I’m afraid to drink tap water lest I overdose. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/26 "2015-05-04T17:50:51Z")
My cousin died from the medical effects of Jesus urine. 3 whole molecules was just too damn strong. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/27 "2015-05-04T18:28:57Z")
[quote=“SecretaryofEvil, post:7, topic:719083”] Relevant clip from Futurama that sums up my opinions on the subject. [/QUOTE] > [@edmundoge](#): > > 1 year ago > > Don’t blast him with the hose! He might OD! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/28 "2015-05-04T18:49:44Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > The [legal loopholes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_prevalence_of_homeopathy) protecting homeopathic preparations need to be removed. I don’t understand why this wasn’t done a long time ago. It’s even worse in Canada - homeopathic “medicines” are specifically licenced as “natural health products”. > **[Evidence for homeopathic medicines - Canada.ca](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/natural-non-prescription/legislation-guidelines/guidance-documents/evidence-homeopathic-medicines.html)** > > 2015 Health Canada guidance document > [@](#): > > The Natural Health Products Regulations (the Regulations) require all homeopathic medicines to have a licence before being sold in Canada. Licence holders are issued a product number which must appear on the label of their product. The product number for homeopathic medicines is preceded by DIN-HM. To obtain a DIN-HM, a Product Licence Application (PLA) form must be completed by applicants. These applications are assessed by the Natural Health Products Directorate (NHPD), which is responsible for issuing product licences for all natural health products (NHPs). The NHPD uses evidence submitted by applicants to critically assess the safety, efficacy and quality of NHPs prior to approving them for sale in Canada. Efficacy? It’s … water. To my mind, giving a homeopathic medicine a license based on “proven efficacy” is officially aiding and abbetting pure quackery. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/29 "2015-05-04T19:03:17Z")
_uses evidence submitted by applicants…_ I’m sure that’s unbiased. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/30 "2015-05-04T19:22:20Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > _uses evidence submitted by applicants…_ > > I’m sure that’s unbiased. :smack: Well, that’s the least objectionable part - after all, every applicant for a drug license submits evidence (like clinical trials) in an attempt to prove their product is both safe and effective. It’s the job of the regulator to view this evidence critically. The thing that burns my ass is that, in the case of homeopathic so-called “medicines”, there can be by definition no actual evidence that the stuff is “effective”. It is, after all, water. The way the regulator get around this is to invent a whole new category of licence, which requires a different sort of “evidence”. From the guidance: > [@](#): > > Table 4: Levels of Evidence > > Level > > Type of Evidence > > I Well-designed systematic reviews and meta-analyses of randomized controlled trials or other clinical trials, OR > At least one well-designed randomized controlled trial (preferably multi-centred) > II Well-designed clinical trials without randomization and/or control groups > > III Well-designed descriptive and observational studies, such as correlational studies, cohort studies and case-control studies > > IV Peer-reviewed published articles, conclusions of other reputable regulatory agencies, previous marketing experience, expert opinion reports, textbooks, homeopathic materia medica, homeopathic pharmacopoeias, homeopathic provings, homeopathic repertories > > V References to a traditional use > > The NHPD encourages the use of level I-III evidence where it exists. Scientific evidence from Levels I-III may be used to support novel conditions of use which are not supported by homeopathic provings or references such as the homeopathic materia medica. Homeopathic materia medica and homeopathic provings are the most commonly available evidence, and are accepted as Level IV evidence. This is bure, unadulterated bullshit - though the general public may not realize it. Of course there are no randomized clinical trials that demonstrate the efficacy of homeopathic medicines! It’s water. What this really means is that Health Canada will accept evidence from “homeopathic materia medica, homeopathic pharmacopoeias, homeopathic provings, homeopathic repertories” (that is, bullshit), which the guidelines state is “the most common” form of evidence (really, the only form). This is Health Canada’s way of having its cake and eating it, too. It proclaims the superiority of actual science (that is, the use of randomized clinical trials), while at the same time accepting pure, unadulterated bullshit as “evidence” - albeit “Level IV” evidence - of efficacy. I work in the area of medical product regulation, and it never ceases to annoy me that Health Canada accepts this. A member of the general public could be forgiven for thinking that, after all, if Health Canada licences the stuff in a process that proclaims it is designed to only licence products that are “effective”, there must be some truth to it. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/31 "2015-05-04T19:30:13Z")
I have a good, university-educated friend… who recently posted on Facebook a link to a crowdfunding page for a homeopathy “documentary” about its supposed effectiveness (and implying that it is actually useful and isn’t bullshit.) When one of his friends called him out on it, he wrote a very poetic and completely nonsensical defense of homeopathy, and had another one of his friends (who is also my friend) agreeing with him on everything. The things these two friends of mine were saying, defending homeopathy, were so stupid that I couldn’t even think of a reasonable thing to reply, so I just said nothing. I don’t know what I find worse - the fact that these two friends of mine are so defensive of homeopathy, or the fact that this homeopathy “documentary” crowdfunding page has raised so many thousands of dollars! ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/32 "2015-05-04T22:32:34Z")
We’ve resorted to homeopathy in dealing with a sick toddler. We’ve given her some kids Tylenol, but she wants more. So we’re putting water in the mouth syringe we use for giving her the Tylenol, and she’s happily squirting it into her mouth. It’s special medicine water, put in the syringe where she can’t see us doing it. I am ashamed, but needs must, when the devil vomits in your kettle (or when you have a sick, fussy toddler). ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/33 "2015-05-04T22:52:12Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > We’ve resorted to homeopathy in dealing with a sick toddler. We’ve given her some kids Tylenol, but she wants more. So we’re putting water in the mouth syringe we use for giving her the Tylenol, and she’s happily squirting it into her mouth. It’s special medicine water, put in the syringe where she can’t see us doing it. I am ashamed, but needs must, when the devil vomits in your kettle (or when you have a sick, fussy toddler). That isn’t homeopathy. That is just standard placebo effect which is curiously very real and stranger than most people realize. All of homeopathy is a placebo too but the difference is in the underlying explanation and the profit motive. The placebo effect isn’t just a sham or ineffective treatment. In many cases, it has a very measurable effect over the target condition compared with no treatment control groups. Oddly enough, the placebo effect also works on animals and even for people that are told directly that they are getting a placebo. It is still one of the greatest unexplained mysteries in all of the medical and biological sciences. There is nothing wrong with ‘medicating’ your toddler that way. Chances are that the fake Tylenol is really helping her for reasons that no one fully understands. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/34 "2015-05-04T23:11:07Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > There is nothing wrong with ‘medicating’ your toddler that way. Chances are that the fake Tylenol is really helping her for reasons that no one fully understands. I was joking that it was homeopathy- we’re using water as medicine, after all 😉 It’s certainly helping us- less fussing. Helping her, too, no doubt- she’s got an upper respiratory infection of some sort, so she needs to drink more water. My main worry was making her think it’s ok to take a lot of medicine. But that doesn’t hold much water (ha!) when it’s evening and there is a fussy toddler to appease. ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/35 "2015-05-05T14:38:52Z")
The Amazing Randi gives talks on quackery, and he brings a box of homeopathic sleeping pills, shows everyone the overdose warning on the label, and then [eats the entire package](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCYvOgBaEY8). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/36 "2015-05-05T17:45:33Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > What gets me are the drug stores that stock homeopathic products in the pharmacy, rather than the water department. Har! I tell people that once a year I go to the ocean and have a sip of seawater- which contains the most diluted thus the strongest homepathetic cures all in one sip. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/37 "2015-05-05T17:50:27Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > What makes me stabby is that Samuel Hahnemann, the doctor who invented homeopathy, was actually trying to practice a sort of evidence-based medicine, back when that wasn’t a thing. When he started experimenting with his “like cures like” idea, doctors were still doing things like prescribing carrots for impotence, cause, y’know, and bleeding, and purging people. Hahnemann actually kept notes on treatments, and didn’t use things that appeared to have a statistically null effect. > > Of course, just the fact that sick people were being dehydrated and starved by conventional medicine, and Hahnemann’s treatment _rehydrated_ them (not to mention, he allowed them to eat), could have made his treatment statistically much more effective than conventional medicine of the time. > > Hahnemann was not a stupid man. But he lived before the germ theory. I think (this is the stabby part) if he came back to life today, and saw the state of modern medicine, learned its scientific basis, and then found out people were still following his theories from 1800, _unchanged_ he would scream “You fools!” Very interesting. I have made this same point- back in 1810 a lot of what was then “medicine’ would actively harm you. Having a regime which is 100% harmless and could cure thru the placebo and 'caring professional” effect made homeopathy almost a miracle cure back then. But we’ve moved beyond this. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/38 "2015-05-05T18:02:52Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This is (p)ure, unadulterated bullshit Seeing as how homeopathy relies on water having a memory of anything that’s been dissolved in it and is stronger for having been enormously diluted, that statement [is absolutely true.](http://imgur.com/a/F1hRK) ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/39 "2015-05-05T18:17:06Z")
[Homeopathy works.](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ym61RdIfRX4/U2ZQkYNHc7I/AAAAAAAAZTw/qdvGHvzwXGU/s1600/bullets.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083/40 "2015-05-05T18:34:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Very interesting. I have made this same point- back in 1810 a lot of what was then "medicine’ would actively harm you. Around that time, [Lewis and Clark made sure to take mercury-containing laxatives with them on their expedition.](http://offbeatoregon.com/H1006d_BiliousPills.html) At least, if you took homeopathic medicines, you only died of the disease- you didn’t get mercury poisoning from the medicine you took. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-makes-me-stabby/719083.md?page=3)