# Homeopathy--quackery or legit medicine? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899 "2011-07-21T19:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/21 "2011-07-21T20:38:14Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What is placebo homeopathy? Actual medicine? A sugar pill (not made using homeopathic methods), but administered in the same fashion as the ‘genuine’ homepathic pills (which, chemically at least, generally are sugar pills). ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/22 "2011-07-21T20:43:47Z")
[Obligatory](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/23 "2011-07-21T20:46:10Z")
It’s pure quackery. [Here’s](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2539/whats-up-with-homeopathy) the Cecil’s take on it FWIW. > [@](#): > > Homeopathy! I can’t believe this has made a comeback. The last time homeopathy was big, Ulysses S. Grant was president. Now here it is, two months into the year 2000, and you walk into one of these pricey organic supermarkets and see aisles full of homeopathic nostrums, all of which have a proven effectiveness on a par with eye of newt. So, recognizing the complete futility of the effort, I feel obliged to state for the record: Come on, folks. This is nuts. > [@](#): > > Why does belief in homeopathy persist? Well, for most routine, common-cold-type health complaints, it’s not noticeably less effective than mainstream medicine, or noticeably different in its therapeutic approach. People catch “bugs” that are never diagnosed (and which, if viral, have no cure anyway), take some over-the-counter remedy that claims to address the symptoms, and eventually get better. Did the over-the-counter remedy help? Who knows? It’s silly to believe in homeopathic cures, but I’m not seeing that it’s smarter to place your faith in Sudafed instead. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/24 "2011-07-21T20:46:13Z")
It’s insane to me that it is legal to make false claims about products under the guise of homeopathy when everything else has to be proven to earn its place on the shelf. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/25 "2011-07-21T20:53:21Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > It’s insane to me that it is legal to make false claims about products under the guise of homeopathy when everything else has to be proven to earn its place on the shelf. It’s a [political legacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_prevalence_of_homeopathy#United_States); political corruption fossilized into law when the FDA was created: > [@](#): > > A principal sponsor of the Act was New York Senator and homeopathic physician Royal Copeland, who ensured that homeopathy’s own Homœopathic Pharmacopœia of the United States (HPUS) be included, as it expressed the “self-professed quality standards” of the homeopathic profession. The finished Act thus created loopholes for the regulation of homeopathic drugs, and they are thus exempted from many of the rules regulating other drugs. The inclusion of HPUS in the Act has since been questioned by “lawyers, doctors, homeopaths, historians, and Food and Drug Administration (FDA) officials.”[28] ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/26 "2011-07-21T20:53:39Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > . . . The lack of evidence-based support for it doesn’t seem to bother her because she feels she has seen the benefits firsthand. . . This is a statement that she does not make rational decisions when faced with complicated data. Flat out. Most things go away if you don’t treat them. Hence the old cliche, take two aspirin and call me in the morning. The aspirin was never intended to cure anything. If you’re feeling a bit evil, you could tell her that a study found that injecting homeopathic meds is more effective than drinking them. Well, technically, the study was on placebos, but it should transfer just fine. Assuming that the homeopathic water is sterile. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/27 "2011-07-21T20:57:32Z")
The problem with such “medicine” is that sometimes it seems to work, and that is all you need, quackery or not. I would not recommend homeopathy to my friends but let me tell you a quick story: Our cat had enlarged kidneys, and the vet said there’s really nothing to do, sorry, except eventually put him to sleep (this is the quick version); come back in four weeks and we talk about that next step. My girlfriend at the time, this was a long time ago, was upset and her therapist said, “Why don’t you try homeopathy first?” My girlfriend (or I) didn’t know what h. was but contacted the h. center. They said, “Send us some of your cat’s fur.” So she did. A week later we got some pills and a bill. The cat ate the pills, and four weeks later my girlfriend took him to the vet. The kidneys were back to normal. The vet was flabbergasted and said: “What’s going on here?” My girlfriend told about the h. and the vet angrily left the room. There are many stories like that, and the problem is, if someone says, it’s quackery, it doesn’t matter to those who believe in it, because they have anectodal evidence that it works. Not always, but often enough to try it. And if it seems to work not just once, but yet another time, then you have a believer. I have another anecdote for your amusement, which is just as weird (no h. involved though). In short, for years my old mother was plagued with a lump in her foot (I believe “lump” is the right word in English), which slowly but steadily grew and showed on x-rays etcetera. It hurt when she walked and it got worse and the doc said you need surgery but it is not uncomplicated (think it was some rheumatic thing). She read an ad about “lumps” and “rose hip”. She bought the product, ate it for a few weeks, and the lump disappeared. Next time it was not on the x-ray. Don’t hurt me, I’m no beliver in h. or rose hip, but my point is that however unscientific and quackery it might be, it doesn’t matter to the user if it works; and if it works, especially several times first or second hand, you have believers. – The homeopathics (if that’s a word) probably have vast amounts of anecdotal evidence, so much that they probably say: I don’t know _how_ it works, but I know _that_ it works and please let us continue doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/28 "2011-07-21T20:58:56Z")
As I mentioned in that fulminant trainwreck of a reiki thread, placebos may have their place - if they are cheap, safe, and used only for non-life threatening conditions which mainstream therapy cannot completely address. Even then there are [serious ethical questions](http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/22/science-homeopathy-clinical-trials). Another problem is that once the door is opened to reiki, homeopathy or other woo, it gains sufficient legitimacy in many eyes that quacks can sell it as effective for more significant problems. For instance, there actually was a “mission” to Haiti following the earthquake there, by a group called [Homeopaths Without Borders](http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/07/homeopathy_in_haiti_a_year_and_a_half_la.php). _“Immediately after we opened our clinic at the French Hospital, men, women, and children from all over the city headed our way. They lined up seeking help for headaches and dizziness, sprained ankles and crushed toes, and every complaint in between. We treated an infinite number of people who had irritated eyes caused by the debris in the air and countless lethargic babies weakened by the inadequate food supply. We used Euphrasia for eyes and Carbo vegetabilis for the infants. We also used Sepia and Vaginitis combinations for many of the female complaints and Arnica montana and the Arnica gels for a good number of the musculoskeletal injuries. We relied on many of the most basic remedies like Calcarea carbonica and Sulphur and handed simple cell salt combination remedies to the children over and over again. =”_ Terrific, magic water used for trauma cases and malnourished infants. The end result of such “missions” is that homeopaths get a p.r. benefit and people in need of real medical care suffer. > [@Wakinyan](#): > > The vet was flabbergasted and said: “What’s going on here?” My girlfriend told about the (homeopathy) and the vet angrily left the room. There are many stories like that And just as many or more where the homeopathy or other woo did not work, but the patient or pet owner didn’t bother giving a negative testimonial, figured it was their fault in some way that the “cure” didn’t take or were too embarrassed to come forward. Oddly enough, websites featuring testimonials for woo seem rather biased in favor of positive anecdotes. But yes, anecdotes can seem compelling if one is not familiar with the fallacies involved and the natural history of many illnesses (which improve over time even if no real treatment is employed). ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/29 "2011-07-21T20:59:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What is placebo homeopathy? Actual medicine? A good question. As homeopathic remedies are just water, how does one derive a placebo version, other than by also using just water? > [@jz78817](#): > > the problem I have (not that I disagree in principle) is that if “herbal” or “alternative” medicine is found to be effective and safe, _it becomes medicine._ Willow bark extract was “herbal” medicine at one time, now you just go get 200 tablets of aspirin for $1. Once it’s been proven, and been tested and studied and licences and synthesised, yeah. Which doesn’t mean there aren’t herbal medicines which work perfectly well which have yet to be processed into the canon of orthodox medicine. Certainly of the “alternative” approaches to medice, herbal medicine is the only one that’s got a decent chance of having a real effect, being a crude analogue of proper medicine rather than magic water or calling down spirits. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/30 "2011-07-21T20:59:17Z")
Lol, I’ve given her the link to this thread, so she can read all these posts and respond if she wants to add something to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/31 "2011-07-21T21:03:01Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > [Obligatory](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0) [Also](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMvMb90hem8). I suppose homeopathy would make quite a good placebo. No side effects, as they often boast. No other effects either, but that’s neither here nor there. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/32 "2011-07-21T21:05:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > There is, likely, no water on Earth that, at some point, has not had some person or animal crap in it. And the more you try to purify that water, the crappier it gets. Under the concept of homeopathy, bottled water should be grosser than drinking directly out of an unflushed toilet. You’d like [this poster](http://hellsnewsstand.blogspot.com/2009/04/we-have-posters-too.html). ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/33 "2011-07-21T21:11:49Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > A good question. As homeopathic remedies are just water, how does one derive a placebo version, other than by also using just water? Infact generally they’re not even water, at least from what I understand. I believe a lot of homeopathic remedies come in pill form where sugar is added to the ‘homeopathic water’ and then allowed to crystallize and it’s from this sugar that the pill is made. In order that there’s no difference between those receiving the placebo and those receving the actual remedy, the placebo would be given by a homeopath who was also unaware whether or not it was the placebo. Obviously a double-blind study is not to assess the actual biochemical feasbilty of homeopathy, but just it’s effectiveness as a treatment. The placebos are just bog-standard sugar pills so are not chemically different from the actual homeopathic pills. Homeopaths place great store in the actually method of preparation and have cried foul in the past when studies have not used ‘striking boards’ to prepare homeopathic preparations. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/34 "2011-07-21T21:15:26Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > You’d like [this poster](http://hellsnewsstand.blogspot.com/2009/04/we-have-posters-too.html). Thank you for that. Homeopathy is absolute, utter nonsense, peddled to people who have little to no understanding of how the real world works by people either truly deluded or manipulatively evil. I love how my woo-woo friends are always going on about how “Big Pharma” is only selling us the drugs they do to make money, and that’s why they only use homeopathy and herbal remedies. Sold by corporations to make money. Idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/35 "2011-07-21T21:36:49Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I think many people conflate homeopathy with non-traditional herbal or “natural” medicine. That’s another reason to despise homeopathy–that it tarnishes the name of other “alternative” treatments that _are_ worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/36 "2011-07-21T21:53:23Z")
Total quackery. It’s amazing how many people believe in it, though. I have a relative who is a midwife and seems like a pretty smart and sensible person, but I learned recently on her website that she’s a homeopathic practitioner, as well. I really don’t get how someone like her could fall for it. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/37 "2011-07-21T22:10:34Z")
seless quackery. Of course, when it (homeopathy) was last big, regular doctors killed a lot of people with poisonous “medicines”. Now that medicine is a better organized science, death from treatment is less common. Of course, nobody was ever poisoned by homeopathic “medicines”-there is NOTHING in them. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/38 "2011-07-21T23:23:18Z")
Yet another [Obligatory](http://youtu.be/HhGuXCuDb1U) Tim Minchin’s Storm the Animated Movie just under 11 minutes ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/39 "2011-07-21T23:58:19Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Of course, nobody was ever poisoned by homeopathic “medicines”-there is NOTHING in them. It’s not true that homeopathic preparations pose no risk whatsoever. There have been instances of microbial and toxic metal contamination of these “drugs”, as well as at least one case where a homeopathic product marketed for asthma was found to contain prednisolone (a steroid). When your drug/supplement basically consists of water or other inactive ingredients, there’s a temptation to add actual drugs without putting them on the label or otherwise warning consumers. While reports of this are scant in relation to homeopathy, it’s occurred over and over again with herbal supplements imported from abroad (especially China). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899/40 "2011-07-22T00:59:57Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > That’s another reason to despise homeopathy–that it tarnishes the name of other “alternative” treatments that _are_ worthwhile. Like Crystal Healing and Therapeutic Touch? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeopathy-quackery-or-legit-medicine/589899.md?page=3)