# Homeowner charged for protecting home from vandels. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 17, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207 "2013-06-17T20:09:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/1 "2013-06-17T20:09:02Z")
This says a lot about whats wrong with this country. If my kids had done something like this they would have been punished and I would have been apologizing to this man. Instead they filed charges against the homeowner. How else is one guy supposed to detain 4 kids with hammers? The homeowner called 911 before entering the house. Cops were there within a short time. The kids couldn’t have been detained more 15 to 30 minutes. Worthless little shits weren’t even taken to the police station. They were escorted home by police officers to their parents. Best of all? Under New York State law, a juvenile can only be held liable for up to $1500 in damages. Thats 6,000 (4 kids) for tens of thousands dollars damage. :smack: What kind of message are these parents sending to their kids? That there are no consequences for actions like this? This was planned retaliation for being asked earlier to stay out of these people’s yard. The pictures of that house just makes me sick. [http://www.waynetimes.com/news/clyde-man-arrested-after-corralling-vandals-in-a-closet-until-police-arrived](http://www.waynetimes.com/news/clyde-man-arrested-after-corralling-vandals-in-a-closet-until-police-arrived) > [@](#): > > Jesse R. Daniels, age 53, of 45 Orchard Street in the Village of Clyde was home watching television on Saturday (6/8/13) around 9 p.m. He began hearing some pounding noises and, at first, thought nothing of it. The pounding continued and Daniels finally went outside and saw someone with a hammer inside his father-in-law’ s house at 39 Orchard Street. He told his wife to call police and went inside the house to confront the intruder. > > Jesse and his father-in-law, Richard Muoio, had been remodeling the house, and had put in countless hours and money, in an effort to rejuvenate the empty house. > > Upon entering the house, Daniels saw a great deal of the damage downstairs and went upstairs to confront the intruder. Jesse encountered four young boys, all with hammers. The boys tried forcing their way out several times, Daniels corralled them into a closet awaiting police arrival. The damage in the home ranged from paint splattered walls and cupboards to broken fixtures and wall outlets that had been kicked in. There were entire walls that had to be taken down due to the amount of hammer strikes through the drywall. > > The four boys, two sets of brothers and cousins, ages 8 and 10, had caused tens of thousands of dollars in damages (Daniels estimates damages in the range of $50,000); breaking 14 double pane windows and smashing to the floor level a new toilet and fixtures which Jesse and Richard had recently installed. Just about every wall and room in the home was either splattered with paint or received the harsh end of hammers. > > According to Clyde Village Police Officer Larry LaValley, one of the boys taken into custody was upset with Daniel’s wife for telling them to stay out of her yard earlier that day. The words “cunt” and “bitch” were painted on the walls. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/2 "2013-06-17T20:18:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Best of all? Under New York State law, a juvenile can only be held liable for up to $1500 in damages. Thats 6,000 (4 kids) for tens of thousands dollars damage. :smack: That’s for court ordered restitution. It doesn’t say he can’t go after them in civil court. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/3 "2013-06-17T20:38:29Z")
The parents actions bother me the most. My wife and I would have certainly offered to work at the house patching holes and repainting. Then paying for whatever couldn’t be fixed. That’s how I was raised. Family integrity is very important. My name and reputation within the community defines me as a person. If a kid of mine damaged something then I have the responsibility to make it right. I’d make my kids help fix the mess too. But kids this young are pretty useless for any real work. Other than sweeping and picking up trash. Although this scale of damage is just astonishing. I can’t imagine 8 year olds this out of control. I seriously wonder if they’ve ever been disciplined before. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/4 "2013-06-17T22:12:58Z")
“Won’t somebody think of the children?” It looks like that question is answered. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/5 "2013-06-17T22:19:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Although this scale of damage is just astonishing. I can’t imagine 8 year olds this out of control. I seriously wonder if they’ve ever been disciplined before. The actions of the parents have me fairly sure the answer is to that question is “no.” Here’s hoping Mr. Daniels can successfully sue them in civil court for the damages their charming angels wrought. (although I suspect it will be a Pyrrhic victory; odds are the parents are low-lifes who don’t have anything close to the money needed to repair all that damage.) ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/6 "2013-06-17T22:45:49Z")
but, but, but, childhood _innocence!_ ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/7 "2013-06-17T22:53:18Z")
I can recall news in the past where the cops put kids this age in a empty holding cell or even a locked office for a couple hours. A harmless scare can do wonders in teaching a kid that there are consequences for their actions. But, the parents still have to do their part by supporting the police and punishing the child at home. I’m not sure any punishment is suitable for something like this. Certainly some kind of work. Mowing the victims yard every week for the summer. Sweeping and cleaning at the damaged house. Definitely no tv, computers, swimming, or allowance for the summer. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/8 "2013-06-17T22:58:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I can recall news in the past where the cops put kids this age in a empty holding cell or even a locked office for a couple hours. A harmless scare can do wonders in teaching a kid that there are consequences for their actions. But, the parents still have to do their part by supporting the police and punishing the child at home. > > I’m not sure any punishment is suitable for something like this. Certainly some kind of work. Mowing the victims yard every week for the summer. Sweeping and cleaning at the damaged house. Definitely no tv, computers, swimming, or allowance for the summer. oh bullshit. These worthless little shits are barely more than feral animals. they’re pretty much already sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/9 "2013-06-17T23:14:53Z")
Yeah, I’m giving the parents too much credit. They’d sue the police for taking their precious angels to the station. Punishing a child is work. You can’t just tell a 8 or 9 year old to mow someones yard. You have to be out in the hot sun supervising and making sure its done right. It’s part of being a committed parent. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/10 "2013-06-17T23:37:38Z")
You guys apparently missed a little detail the parenting skills demonstrated here: > [@](#): > > Daniels claims one of the boys told him that the youth’s mother told the boys to come over and do it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/11 "2013-06-17T23:42:22Z")
Ok, I’m all for tarring and feathering the parents, but the guy didn’t need to threaten the kids with a hammer. It’s a dumb move. It’s also a dumb move to prosecute that. Homeowner’s insurance should cover the damage, they can sue the parents for anything the insurance didn’t cover. Sadly, I’ve heard of a similar thing happening, a group of kids destroying someone’s new car. Kids that young can’t understand the consequences of their actions, and they are essentially psychopathic as a result. Trouble is, you never which ones will grow out of it and which one’s won’t. At a minimum CPS should be investigating those families. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/12 "2013-06-17T23:43:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You guys apparently missed a little detail the parenting skills demonstrated here: Yeah. Little boys never lie. Hang her. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/13 "2013-06-17T23:45:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You guys apparently missed a little detail the parenting skills demonstrated here: and that’s why you get to sue the parents. I have a little empathy for parents of out of control kids after watching my housemate have to literally lock her daughter in her room, barred windows and all, to keep her out of trouble. Glad I don’t have to deal with that kind of thing, blech. But I’d definitely go after the parents for this, this is ridiculous. Also, the juvenile court system is quite a bit different than adult jail, and they typically have the resources and wherewithal to steer the kid into a better place, so I’d have no qualms about involving authorities. And part of the typical program includes restitution, so…There’s a chance the kid might learn what his parents are unable to teach him. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/14 "2013-06-18T01:35:57Z")
Figures that it would be in one of the Big Nannystates, in any reasonable state, the homeowner would not only not be charged, but actually commended for apprehending the little shits responsible and showing admirable restraint. The perps should be forced to repair the damage they caused, AND spend at least a year performing routine maintenance and property care (with hand tools only, no power equipment for the little scumbags), the parents of the delinquents should also be made to pay all damages and associated costs with the repairs. But thanks to the Great Nannystate, the culture of entitlement and the “cult of the child” that probably won’t happen… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/15 "2013-06-18T02:00:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yeah. Little boys never lie. Hang her. It’s not proven. But it sure sounds consistent with the rest of the story. ---
**Author:** ![the\_O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@the\_O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_O)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/16 "2013-06-18T02:25:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > This says a lot about whats wrong with this country. And you can’t unring the bell. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/17 "2013-06-18T02:57:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s not proven. But it sure sounds consistent with the rest of the story. It’s pretty sad that it has to be considered at all. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/18 "2013-06-18T04:17:10Z")
I’ve been thinking back to my daughter’s childhood. We pretty much stopped the spankings around age 7. I tend to think they are ineffective. The kid has a couple minutes punishment and then an hour later they’re in the bedroom playing video games. My wife liked to announce that the kitchen dishwasher was off limits for the week. The girls punishment was hand washing dishes. That’s a punishment they don’t shrug off and forget in five minutes. 😉 Taking away house privileges is also effective. We tried to be fair and still get across the point they had done something wrong. Thankfully we never had any major problems with our girls. Minor stuff. Vandalizing homes? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/19 "2013-06-18T07:27:45Z")
I wonder if there is a jury that will convict the adult of his “crime”. Hopefully these boys won’t live with their “parents” for much longer. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207/20 "2013-06-18T08:45:31Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > oh bullshit. These worthless little shits are barely more than feral animals. they’re pretty much already sociopaths. This just screams bad parenting not “the kids are all sociopaths”. _One_ kid perhaps, but not 4; sociopathy isn’t that common. Nor for that matter is the damage as extreme as the kind of thing I’d expect out of genuine sociopaths; this is just childish vandalism writ large, not a murder attempt or the like. Give kids parental license to run wild and this is the sort of thing I’d _expect_ to see. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeowner-charged-for-protecting-home-from-vandels/661207.md?page=2)