# Homer vs. Ned **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 23, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566 "2001-07-23T22:39:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/1 "2001-07-23T22:39:10Z")
Okay, it’s not quite a Great Debate, but it’s been awhile since we’ve had a Simpsons thread. The issue: Homer and Ned Flanders: friend or foe? It’s pretty clear that Homer thinks Ned is a big drip, and Ned is friendly to Homer only out of Christian obligation. And yet… In last night’s repeat, Homer was doing everything he could to get Ned to hook up with the Christian singer. Homer helped rebuild Ned’s house (badly) after it was destroyed. Homer helped save the Leftorium at one time. Homer took Ned to Las Vegas to teach him how to cut loose. Homer came out of the fallout shelter to wait for the giant meteor with Ned. And the list goes on. So is Homer, in fact, Ned Flanders’sssss best friend? Is Homer looking for the kinship he missed by being an only child, only he’s too dumb to do it right? Is this TV’s most truly developed relationship between adult males? Your opinions, please. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/2 "2001-07-23T22:51:47Z")
Well, obviously, Ned’s phasers have unlimited range and unlimited capabilities, and he could always just teleport a Christon Torpedo into Homer’s head and destroy him that way. Or he can zip around at near-impossible speeds that Homer has no chance of ever countering and shooting at him that way. Oh, wait… sorry… I got confused for a second. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/3 "2001-07-23T22:56:39Z")
As someone who prides themself on having seen every Simpsons episode, I was delighted to see this thread. Here’s my take… Homer’s Perspective - There has been enough evidence that has shown that he thinks of Ned as a friend. FOr instance when Maude died…Homer made that video for the video dating service. These have however been in the final season (or final couple anyhow). In the beginning, Homers actions were out of Jealousy more than anything else. He was perhaps a touch annoyed at his perfection. When did it change? MY guess was the episode where everyone turned on Ned and in the end, Homer stuck up for him (it was in church). Ned’s Perspective - This one is a little tougher for me. If I had to guess, Ned is friendly mostly out of Christian Obligation. As far as viewing Homer as an actual friend - for friendship sake - I think there may be a touch of real love there, but not much. I think that Christian Obligation is Ned’s entire Moral Compass, and emotional one as well. This doesnt’ allow Ned the opportunity to have a friend seperated from religion. If you remember the episode where Ned and Maude took care of the Simpson kids, and wanted them baptised despite Homer and Marge’s wishes…I think this pretty much proved that his sole driving force is christian obligation - rather than honest friendship. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/4 "2001-07-24T02:06:57Z")
I don’t think Ned’s behavior can be reduced to “Christian obligation,” if that implies that he begrudges Homer his forgiveness. Ned is a Pollyanna type. He doesn’t choose to see the world for how bad it is. He’s the guy who likes mosquito bites, because it feels good to scratch them (“Mmmmm, satisfyin’!”). He’s the guy who taught his children to appreciate an `imagination Christmas’ (“Yaaaay!”). ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/5 "2001-07-24T03:07:58Z")
I wasn’t aware that there was a [moderator](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=79003) named Ned. If you examine Homer and Ned closely, there is a self-cancelling irony about the pair. Homer gets the wishbone and hopes for Ned to suffer. Only long overdue pangs of conscience finally cause Homer to rally customers for the Leftorium. Only after Home gets Ned voted out of his own fallout shelter (_ala The Twilight Zone_) does Homer again have his well-deferred pangs. Only after torturing Ned with his constant intrusions does Homer finally come to Ned’s defense in church. In a similar fashion, Ned is so narrow (“Daddy says dice are evil, so we just move one square at a time. It’s less fun that way.”) in his appreciation of the world outside of his religious purview (“Yup, two hundred and forty three channels, with two hundred and forty two of them locked out.”), that Homer’s outright lunacy is one of the few possible tonics for such obliviousness. Whenever it gets out of hand, Homer’s hamfisted, marginal hipness is the only antidote for Ned’s blithering smarminess. The pair are merely two sides of the same coin. Both are equally devoted to blissfull ignorance, (Homer: “Okay brain, you don’t like me and I don’t like you. So let’s get this over with so I can go home and get back to killing you with beer.” Homer’s brain: Woo Hoo!"). ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/6 "2001-07-24T05:47:32Z")
The way that I see it, Homer is friendly to Ned only when it is convenient for him to be that way. Also, Homer has some emotional instability, and he can fly into a rage at just about anybody for a seemingly trivial reason (remember the mini-golf episode.) I have always viewed Homer as the stereotypical middle-class American, stuck on the idea of instant gratification. Though he might sometimes want to have a real friendship with Ned, he’s unwilling to put any effort into it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/7 "2001-07-24T07:15:27Z")
Also, keep in mind that Homer may suffer from Penis Envy. Remember that Ned is hung like the proverbial horse… and he’s sexy in a ski-suit, t’boot (“Stupid sexy Flanders!”). That may be the source that keeps Homer from outright liking Ned. ---
**Author:** ![Chocobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Chocobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chocobo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/8 "2001-07-24T07:44:59Z")
Keep in mind that in one episode, they actually were friends. Ned invited Homer to a baseball game, and after that they became best friends…until Flanders got fed up with Homer. And of course, their respective families didnt mix too well. I particularly loved the chase scene. (Maude: Floor it, Neddy! Ned: I can’t! It’s a GEO!!) ---
**Author:** ![Chocobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/898d66/32.png) [@Chocobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chocobo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/9 "2001-07-24T07:47:14Z")
Well actually…it was when Homer got the notice that his Great Uncle Mortimer died and that he would inherit everything if he stayed a weekend in his supposedly haunted house (or something like that). ---
**Author:** ![JonScribe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3be4f8/32.png) [@JonScribe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JonScribe)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/10 "2001-07-24T07:48:45Z")
Really, for all their mutual annoyances, Ned and Homer are all the other has in terms of male friendship. Ned is even seen as over the top by the Rev. Lovejoy. And who’s Homer got? Barney? Not really. Although they share a love of beer, Barney and Homer really don’t come off as close friends. It’s a complex relationship, but a friendship, nonetheless. Doh! I need sleep. I’m analyzing the friendship of two cartoon characters. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/11 "2001-07-24T08:47:07Z")
Homer is best friends with both Barney and Moe (Barney because they went through High School/College together, and Moe because he gets Homer drunk). Then there’s Lenny and Carl, and Apu. And let’s not forget Mr. Burns’ son (whose name slips my mind at the moment)… the two of them hit it off VERY well. Ned… well, he’s a senior citizen… he probably hangs around with the likes of Jasper and Hans Moleman. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/12 "2001-07-24T13:02:00Z")
Burn’s son is Larry; voiced by Rodney Dangerfield. I think of Homer as bullying Ned. He constantly makes fun of him, and Ned just takes it. The episode where Ned lost it is analygous to the “nerds” in school who are constantly picked on and end up shooting up the school. Homer is only nice to Ned when his conscious makes him feel guilty. I think his treatment of Ned is the only time he ever feels guilt. Ned is an example of how anything, including Christian morals, can be taken to a dangerous extreme. If you are nice all the time to everyone, you end up making everyone sick and getting taken advantage of. Matt Groening himself said that Ned is an example of the age old question: Why is goodness so infuriating? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/13 "2001-07-24T13:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > **Also, keep in mind that Homer may suffer from Penis Envy. Remember that Ned is hung like the proverbial horse…** I have to disagree with this. In the episode that Maude was killed, she goes to get hot dogs and makes the comment, “I know. No foot-longs, they make you uncomfortable.” ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/14 "2001-07-24T22:49:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > > **Also, keep in mind that Homer may suffer from Penis Envy. Remember that Ned is hung like the proverbial horse…** > > I have to disagree with this. In the episode that Maude was killed, she goes to get hot dogs and makes the comment, “I know. No foot-longs, they make you uncomfortable.” \*\* Yet in the same episode, when Homer makes the dating tape, he has to block out Flander’s schlong in the shower - and he IS hung like the proverbial horse. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Sugar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Daniel\_Sugar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel_Sugar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/15 "2001-07-25T13:26:11Z")
This is the best thread I’ve ever seen. I believe there is some genuine friendship, at least on Homer’s part. Homer’s overriding characteristic, besides stupidity, is his laziness. He chooses not to take the time to keep relationships, even platonic ones, going as they need to ideally. This is evidenced by the way he treats his own family. He’s selfish and lazy but you know he loves them dearly and will fight like a bear for them. I think it’s the same with Ned. Homer was jealous of Ned in the beginning, seeing how ‘functional’ his family was, and that inspired a lot of the hostility, but as time went on, Homer came to like him genuinely. He doesn’t act like that all the time just coz he’s lazy. He’ll stick up for Flanders when its really needed, but otherwise he’ll just let things go on. As for Flanders, I have to agree with the Christian obligation theory. Flanders, as syrupy as he is, tries to love everybody, as God wants him to, including Homer. They get along, quite well actually, but there’s hardly anything in common. As far as Ned is concerned, he likes Homer, but most likely will never be best friends/drinking buddies. ---
**Author:** ![Daniel\_Sugar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Daniel\_Sugar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daniel_Sugar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/16 "2001-07-25T13:36:59Z")
This is the best thread I’ve ever seen. I believe there is some genuine friendship, at least on Homer’s part. Homer’s overriding characteristic, besides stupidity, is his laziness. He chooses not to take the time to keep relationships, even platonic ones, going as they need to ideally. This is evidenced by the way he treats his own family. He’s selfish and lazy but you know he loves them dearly and will fight like a bear for them. I think it’s the same with Ned. Homer was jealous of Ned in the beginning, seeing how ‘functional’ his family was, and that inspired a lot of the hostility, but as time went on, Homer came to like him genuinely. He doesn’t act like that all the time just coz he’s lazy. He’ll stick up for Flanders when its really needed, but otherwise he’ll just let things go on. As for Flanders, I have to agree with the Christian obligation theory. Flanders, as syrupy as he is, tries to love everybody, as God wants him to, including Homer. They get along, quite well actually, but there’s hardly anything in common. As far as Ned is concerned, he likes Homer, but most likely will never be best friends/drinking buddies. ---
**Author:** ![Agrippina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/17 "2001-07-25T14:25:19Z")
I agree that Homer is only nice to Ned when it’s real convinent to him. But, as Matt Groening said, Ned Flanders is everything Homer would like to be, but would never admit it. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2001, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/18 "2001-07-25T19:12:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > > **Also, keep in mind that Homer may suffer from Penis Envy. Remember that Ned is hung like the proverbial horse…** > > I have to disagree with this. In the episode that Maude was killed, she goes to get hot dogs and makes the comment, “I know. No foot-longs, they make you uncomfortable.” \*\* Her comment doesn’t necessarily mean it makes him feel inferior. It could also bother him to think of eating something with the same proportions as his- you know. _That_ can’t be a comforting thought, either. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/19 "2001-07-26T13:19:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elfkin477 \* > \*\*It could also bother him to think of eating something with the same proportions as his- you know. _That_ can’t be a comforting thought, either. \*\* I guess it would have to depend on who was eating what. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566/20 "2001-07-26T13:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daniel Sugar \* > **Flanders, as syrupy as he is, tries to love everybody, as God wants him to, including Homer.** Except the post office. And his parents–lousy beatniks! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homer-vs-ned/73566.md?page=2)