# Homeschooling biology FAILURE **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352 "2013-02-05T02:28:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/61 "2013-02-05T20:44:33Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > **Jack Batty** : 😛 > > **John Mace** , this is one quick Google. It took me longer to type the post up than to pull up the info. I know that a lot of pro-life people don’t want to believe this, but they’re also supporting it by turning their heads. > > I have pro-life literature that I was handed on campus in the early 80s that states bluntly that as soon as the goal of outlawing abortion was accomplished (it was expected at any moment, after all, they had St. Ronnie, the Moral Majority, and the Conservative Coalition in power), the next step was outlawing all forms of hormonal contraception. It was in teeny-tiny print. > > Sure, not every single pro-life person in the country believes this. But the pro-life _organizations_ sure as hell do. > > Until fairly recently, they tended to keep undercover on the issue, as they were savvy enough to understand that it would cost them money and power as they lost some of the reasonable people. > > However, it looks like these days they’re pretty blatant. Not really surprising, when you look around at what’s going on in the wacko-right-wing. > > [Pro-Life Action League](http://prolifeaction.org/faq/stand.php) > > [http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html) > > [ProLife ObGyns](http://www.aaplog.org/position-and-papers/oral-contraceptive-controversy/birth-control-pill-abortifacient-and-contraceptive/) > > [Pro-Life Wisconsin](http://www.prolifewisconsin.org/proLifeIssues.asp?article=Hormonal+Birth+Control+and+its+Abortion+Causing+Effect&aid=270&id=6) > > [Pro-Life America](http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html) > > [The Lost Generation](http://thelostgenerations.wordpress.com/2011/04/25/does-the-birth-control-pill-cause-abortions-in-a-word-yes/) You said “the movement” which, to me, means all the people supporting it. A google dump doesn’t prove anything other than what I already said was true-- that some subset of the group wants to do this. [Link.](http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/02/23/vast-majority-of-americans-support-access-to-birth-control-new-poll-finds/) Since only 12% of Americans think birth control “is wrong”, I think we can conclude that the majority of pro-lifers are also OK with it. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/62 "2013-02-05T21:12:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You said “the movement” which, to me, means all the people supporting it. A google dump doesn’t prove anything other than what I already said was true-- that some subset of the group wants to do this. > > [Link.](http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/02/23/vast-majority-of-americans-support-access-to-birth-control-new-poll-finds/) Since only 12% of Americans think birth control “is wrong”, I think we can conclude that the majority of pro-lifers are also OK with it. Oh please. Exactly what do 100% of pro-life people agree on? That “abortion is wrong”? Except, of course, when it’s acceptable, to some of them at any rate. I said “the movement” intentionally, to refer more to the organizations than to the individuals. I know a lot of people that will swear up and down that they never supported bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors, either. But that never stopped them from donating money to organizations (directly or indirectly) that used it to promote, support, and defend bombers and shooters. Many of those 88% belong to or support (either monetarily or politically) organizations that are working to completely eliminate access to the most effective forms of birth control. If those 88% disagree with the aims and actions of the organizations they belong to, then they can do something about it. Until then, they’re supporting those aims and actions. Whether they want to admit it or not. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/63 "2013-02-05T21:54:29Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Now that’s what I call an industrial grade ability to see the silver lining . . . er . . . so to speak. Hey, with something this completely nutty, you gotta try! > [@redtail23](#): > > No, actually, they want to make it illegal for everyone. At the very least, they are going after all forms of hormonal birth control. It’s in the literature. > > Last I knew they hadn’t quite gone full-Catholic, so barrier methods were still OK. But really, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that those are on the block, too, for some excuse or another. Does anyone know why? Is it really because they think that birth control=abortion? > [@redtail23](#): > > I know a lot of people that will swear up and down that they never supported bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors, either. But that never stopped them from donating money to organizations (directly or indirectly) that used it to promote, support, and defend bombers and shooters. This is exactly the issue we face with the HSUS. I cannot imagine that even 10% want complete elimination of pet animals, or even of farm animals yet every person who donates to the HSUS or PETA is supporting just that agenda. People are sheep - they fall for the carefully crafted advertising and don’t bother to look to see what the organization is really about. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/64 "2013-02-06T00:57:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Kind of like the original _The Fly_. 😃 > > “Help me! Help me!” I’m seeing more the horror portion of Fantastic Voyage 2: A Womb with a View ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/65 "2013-02-06T01:03:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You said “the movement” which, to me, means all the people supporting it. A google dump doesn’t prove anything other than what I already said was true-- that some subset of the group wants to do this. > > [Link.](http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/02/23/vast-majority-of-americans-support-access-to-birth-control-new-poll-finds/) Since only 12% of Americans think birth control “is wrong”, I think we can conclude that the majority of pro-lifers are also OK with it. Now. Before the propaganda starts, which would be after they finally outlaw abortion. There was an article in the Sunday Times Magazine about this a few years ago. The first step for them would be to spread lies about the pill not being safe. And yes, most Catholics disregard the churches teaching on this, but don’t you think the bishops would be all over laws and restrictions to have the government enforce what they can’t convince their parishioners to do? You might remember that Rick AssJuice put out a little feeler about making birth control rights something the states would control, not something guaranteed by the Constitution. Yeah, they are a way from rolling out this campaign, but they sure will when the time is right - which I hope it never is. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/66 "2013-02-06T02:20:25Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > A long time ago I heard (where? I don’t know) that if a woman has a hysterectomy the doctor can somehow “see” how many zygotes have implanted in a woman’s uterus. The surprising thing about this (I heard, again) was that most women have the marks of several more implantations than they thought they ought to; in other words, women spontaneously abort many pregnancies before they even realize they are pregnant. Of course, that’s something I’ve heard repeatedly from reliable sources. > > I have no idea if any of that is true. > > But if it is, or if someone else heard the same thing and was a moron, they could probably twist it into the baloney from the OP. Indeed, many pregnancies are lost to spontaneous abortion. In generations past when a home pregnancy test was not available at the corner drugstore it is quite likely that many such pregnancies were never identified. It is still the case in some lesser developed countries that pregnancies are not identified as early as in the more developed countries. Of those pregnancies that are recognized, somewhere around 15-20% end in miscarriage. The Wikipedia article on[Miscarriage](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage#First_trimester) notes: > [@](#): > > Chromosomal abnormalities are found in more than half of embryos aborted\* in the first 13 weeks. An embryo with a genetic problem has a 95% probability of being aborted. Most chromosomal problems happen by chance, have nothing to do with the parents, and are unlikely to recur. \*The term _aborted_ is being used in this case is as a clinical term for loss of pregnancy, which could be spontaneous or induced. In this instance it is referring to spontaneously aborted pregnancies. That is in line with the statistics I learned in my human genetics coursework. Early pregnancy loss can be viewed as a sort of natural selection process in such cases, where those embryos unable to survive are lost early. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/67 "2013-02-06T02:43:44Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Indeed, many pregnancies are lost to spontaneous abortion. In generations past when a home pregnancy test was not available at the corner drugstore it is quite likely that many such pregnancies were never identified. It is still the case in some lesser developed countries that pregnancies are not identified as early as in the more developed countries. It is still the case _even in the most developed countries_ that many pregnancies lost to early spontaneous abortion are never identified, as noted in the link in my earlier post. It’s estimated that about 50% of all fertilized eggs or zygotes that are created by the combination of ovum and sperm in a woman’s body never implant in the uterus at all, and their existence is never detected or known, no matter how developed their country of residence is. Technically, those instances of “pre-implantation wastage” (or in Swanson’s terms, “dead babies”) don’t even count as pregnancies. But of the zygotes that **do** implant and thus initiate pregnancy, somewhere around one-quarter are spontaneously aborted before the next menstrual cycle. Again, in most such cases the woman never realizes that she had begun a pregnancy at all. The embryos or fetuses that spontaneously abort **after** a woman notices or suspects that she is pregnant, which is what we commonly call miscarriage, are very few in comparison to the zygotes that die without anyone ever being aware of the pregnancy. This is true in developed and less developed countries alike. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/68 "2013-02-06T02:46:42Z")
Let’s pretend what he’s saying is true – wouldn’t one be in excruciating pain? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is actually only the fourth dumbest thing Kevin Swanson [said](http://vimeo.com/58621706) [this](http://www.policymic.com/articles/24705/kevin-swanson-and-dave-buehner-feminists-are-family-destroying-whores) [month](http://wonkette.com/499648/move-over-feminist-whores-now-kevin-swanson-has-thoughts-on-gays-namblaing-all-the-homeschooled-children). Wait – Sarah Palin is a feminist? Huh, I’ll be damned. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, isn’t it the whole **point** of [homeschooling](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Homeschool), to protect vulnerable young minds from exposure to that sort of factual/scientifical thing? Your link actually proves the opposite of what you’re trying to say. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/69 "2013-02-06T04:00:54Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Does anyone know why? Is it really because they think that birth control=abortion? It’s always been my sense that what they think is that having sex just because you want to have an orgasm is SINFUL. > [@curlcoat](#): > > This is exactly the issue we face with the HSUS. I cannot imagine that even 10% want complete elimination of pet animals, or even of farm animals yet every person who donates to the HSUS or PETA is supporting just that agenda. **People are sheep** - they fall for the carefully crafted advertising and don’t bother to look to see what the organization is really about. Kinda ironic, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/70 "2013-02-06T04:20:34Z")
I’ve heard all my life that abortion was wrong. I’d never heard that birth control was wrong until I read it in a catechism a friend loaned me for a paper I was writing. Since then, I’ve heard it cited (by a certain subset of Baptists) as one of the reasons that Catholics are evil. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/71 "2013-02-06T04:26:05Z")
I don’t know guys, he said “some evidence”, “certain doctors”, and “certain scientists.” And… and… he said the word RESEARCH. Seems legit to me. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/72 "2013-02-06T04:39:04Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > It’s always been my sense that what they think is that having sex just because you want to have an orgasm is SINFUL. So … They want to punish these sinners by making them have children they don’t want? Or are they so stupid that they think if birth control and abortions were illegal, no one would have sex unless they wanted to create children? > [@](#): > > Kinda ironic, ain’t it? Not really - they are so dumb they don’t realize that PETA wants to “set them free in their natural environment”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/73 "2013-02-06T07:41:50Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hold the phone. > > Fuckin’… _really?!_ > > So if I were a homeschooling parent in Texas, I could basically not teach my children anything _at all_ - at least, not on purpose - and could then declare them graduated from HS? Could I do this at birth, even? “Well, we’re still going to have to feed and clothe this little rugrat for the next 18 years, but at least we’ve got her schooling all taken care of!” > > I… just… please tell me that can’t happen. “Texas home schools are considered private schools and are not subject to public school requirements. The only requirement for Texas homeschooling is that children ages 6-17 be taught a written curriculum of reading, spelling, grammar, math and good citizenship in a bona fied manner. Homeschoolers are not required to: [ul] [li]notify or report to the state[/li][li]use a curriculum approved by the state[/li][li]have specific homeschooling qualifications[/li][li]meet a minimum requirement of days or hours of instruction, or[/li][li]submit to homeschool testing.”[/li][/ul] And: "Texas homeschoolers are free to determine graduation requirements for their schools, and there is no minimum age requirement for graduation. State law prevents homeschoolers from discrimination by colleges and universities. " From [Homeschooling in Texas](http://www.successful-homeschooling.com/homeschooling-in-texas.html) . Apparently, it’s OK to declare that your rug rat has mastered all essential subjects before s/he’s 17. Smelling salts? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/74 "2013-02-06T14:40:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wait – Sarah Palin is a feminist? Huh, I’ll be damned. According to Swanson, any woman who has a job and occasionally makes her own decisions is a feminist. :dubious: > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > "Texas homeschoolers are free to determine graduation requirements for their schools, and there is no minimum age requirement for graduation. State law prevents homeschoolers from discrimination by colleges and universities. " How the hell are colleges supposed to know if homeschooled kids are qualified if they can’t be tested? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/75 "2013-02-06T16:23:41Z")
> [@LeeshaJoy](#): > > Um, did anyone say he _does_ speak for the right? 😕 Read the OP again. One of the favorite little liberal slurs is to refer to conservatives as wingnuts. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/76 "2013-02-06T16:40:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Precisely. Homeschoolers generally want to protect the kids from learning how to think critically. The students are almost always taught not to question what the teachers say. I call BS; show me a link. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/77 "2013-02-06T16:50:54Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Read the OP again. One of the favorite little liberal slurs is **to refer to conservatives as wingnuts.** They’re liberals, they’re being _nice._ ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/78 "2013-02-06T17:01:24Z")
Some women (I knew one) take a pill regimen [that completely suppresses their period](http://www.noperiod.com/FAQ.html#What_birth). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/79 "2013-02-06T17:50:37Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Read the OP again. One of the favorite little liberal slurs is to refer to conservatives as wingnuts. What does that have to do with speaking for everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352/80 "2013-02-06T18:08:36Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Read the OP again. One of the favorite little liberal slurs is to refer to conservatives as wingnuts. Um, the only conservatives being referred to as “wingnuts” in this thread are the ones who actually ARE wingnuts. Specifically, biology-denying misogynist anti-birth-control pig-ignorant fundamentalist-bigot wingnuts. You are right that it would be inappropriate for liberals to call ALL conservatives wingnuts, but you haven’t got a leg to stand on if you’re trying to argue that it’s inappropriate for liberals to call ANY conservatives wingnuts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homeschooling-biology-failure/649352.md?page=5)