# Homonyms in English with non-homonym plurals? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 6, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612 "2011-01-06T15:23:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![scruffycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scruffycat/32/200_2.png) [@scruffycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scruffycat)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/41 "2011-01-08T19:33:26Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > That’s an inflection of the verb “to staff”, rather than a pluralisation of the noun that we are discussing. > > I admit that it would be rare to hear the plural noun “staffs” but I think that, in the example I gave, “both staffs wore red” is more correct than “both staff wore red”, which just sounds wrong unless you are talking about members of the same staff. I’ve asked around and you are absolutely correct. I’ve just never heard the phrase before. I would, myself, use something like ‘both sets of staff’ You live and learn. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/42 "2011-01-08T20:24:46Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Antenna (animal appendage) - Antennae > Antenna (apparatus to send and receive radio waves) - Antennas Much of the older Electrical Engineering, and Ham Radio literature will use “antennae” to discribe a plurality of electromagnetic radiators. Admittedly “antennas” seems to be more the american fashion today, though it grates with me. I seem to recall UK publications still tend toward “Antennae”. In geometry and optics: focus/foci At a Ford dealer: Focus/Focuses (ick!) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/43 "2011-01-08T20:54:46Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > That’s an inflection of the verb “to staff”, rather than a pluralisation of the noun that we are discussing. > > I admit that it would be rare to hear the plural noun “staffs” but I think that, in the example I gave, “both staffs wore red” is more correct than “both staff wore red”, which just sounds wrong unless you are talking about members of the same staff. What about "General Smith’s staff had the cool red uniforms and the latest equipment, but General Jones’ staff was more experienced. When it was needed, both staffs had what it took to get the job done. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/44 "2011-01-08T21:50:00Z")
Index -\> Indexes (documents) Index -\> Indices (mathematical exponents, time-series of prices) Some of my colleagues use a singular form “indice” (pronounced in-di-say) as a back-formation from “indices”. ---
**Author:** ![Euryphaessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Euryphaessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euryphaessa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/45 "2011-01-09T00:16:24Z")
beau (a boyfriend) -\> beaux bow (like on a present) -\> bows One weird one from Wikipedia refers to Atlas, the Greek hero, and atlas, a book of maps (which derives from the name of the hero). Statues of Atlas are referred to as Atlantes while books of maps are atlases. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/46 "2011-01-09T01:14:57Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There’s a couple other examples of this, although they are not technically homonyms, since they don’t sound the same. But they’re spelled the same: > > bases – base and basis > axes – ax and axis I have to wonder if you’re a member of my corporation on Eve Online, because in a discussion today that started about the correct plural of “Noctis” (a name of a ship in the game), I mentioned those words and their interesting plurals. Or perhaps you’re mathematically inclined and already encountered those two plurals and mentally filed them, just like I did myself. One could potentially find more by considering English words ending in -is and looking for when the word formed by adding -e to that stem is also an English noun that can be pluralized. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/47 "2011-01-09T02:15:06Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > There’s a couple other examples of this, although they are not technically homonyms, since they don’t sound the same. But they’re spelled the same: > > bases – base and basis > axes – ax and axis I don’t pronounce the plurals the same though (I’m in the US) so “axes” in the following sentences would be pronounced differently by me: “How many axes do we have? We need to get these trees chopped down fast.” (axes has the same last syllable as “rezzes”) “I need to be able to rotate the object along all three axes.” (axes has the same last syllable as “peas”) Update: I see you don’t pronounce them the same either. Sorry, I didn’t notice that. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/48 "2011-01-09T02:18:43Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Index -\> Indexes (documents) > Index -\> Indices (mathematical exponents, time-series of prices) > > Some of my colleagues use a singular form “indice” (pronounced in-di-say) as a back-formation from “indices”. I think I’ve heard “parenthesey” for one parenthesis. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/49 "2011-01-09T02:26:25Z")
> [@Goofus](#): > > ewe - ewes > you - you Not in some parts of the US. you - y’all. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/50 "2011-01-09T05:35:14Z")
Lots of words have both a countable and an uncountable form; sometimes the meaning is completely different, sometimes it’s similar. Not sure if that counts for you - there’s no plural form for the uncountable versions, but they can be used to refer to plurals. Grass - uncountable for that green stuff on the lawn. Grasses - varieties of grass. Grasses - people who tattle to the police. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > What about > > "General Smith’s staff had the cool red uniforms and the latest equipment, but General Jones’ staff was more experienced. When it was needed, both staffs had what it took to get the job done. That one works, since you’re talking about two example of the uncountable noun staff. Ximenean’s example wouldn’t work because he’s talking about two individual members of staff. I mean, you’d always say ‘there were two members of staff on the shop floor’ not ‘there were two staffs on the shop floor,’ surely? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/51 "2011-01-09T05:37:27Z")
> [@j\_sum1](#): > > I somehow missed the condition that the two words be homographs. Well, a homonym has to be a homograph as well as a homophone. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/52 "2011-01-09T10:17:47Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Ximenean’s example wouldn’t work because he’s talking about two individual members of staff. I mean, you’d always say ‘there were two members of staff on the shop floor’ not ‘there were two staffs on the shop floor,’ surely? No I’m not, I’m talking about “the staff of Acme Inc. and the staff of XYZ Inc”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/53 "2011-01-09T10:31:41Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Index -\> Indexes (documents) > Index -\> Indices (mathematical exponents, time-series of prices) IMHO _indices_ is the correct form for both. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/54 "2011-01-09T11:41:09Z")
‘Staffs’ instinctually looks wrong to me, but I have seen it used as a category in some newspaper small ads, advertising vacancies in hotel and catering. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/55 "2011-01-09T15:12:05Z")
> [@scruffycat](#): > > The plural of Staff, is Staff surely? I’e one member of staff turned up today, twenty members of staff turned up today. There you’re not pluralizing “staff,” you’re pluralizing “member.” A staff is a group of workers, so several groups of workers would be staffs. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612/56 "2011-01-10T11:24:55Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > No I’m not, I’m talking about “the staff of Acme Inc. and the staff of XYZ Inc”. Ah, sorry, I misread you then. Your example does work, in that case. > [@jjimm](#): > > ‘Staffs’ instinctually looks wrong to me, but I have seen it used as a category in some newspaper small ads, advertising vacancies in hotel and catering. Recruitment agencies make tons and tons of mistakes. Mind you, best mistake I ever saw was someone advertising their ‘proofreding’ services. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homonyms-in-english-with-non-homonym-plurals/566612.md?page=2)