"Homophobia" highjacks

[Malthus]

*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar *
**Malthus

Speaking from my experience growing up, when your father browbeats you with Leviticus 18:22 for 18 years, it can take a while to grow out of that. **

I was spared that, thank goodness!

I can readily see lots of situational reasons to hate homosexuality - having it drummed into you as a kid is an obvious one.

But that has little to do with rational self-interest, and much to do with conditioning.

I am just pointing out that there is a major, self-interested reason that points the other way, that no-one seems to mention in these kind of discussions - namely, to create a gender imbalance that works in our favour (that is, hetero men).

If us hetero men were to think logically, absent overwhelming conditioning or other factors, we would do everything in our power to encourage homosexuality among men. What is the downside? That men, somewhere, are getting it on with each other? Why should we give a shit?

[Malacandra]

And by the same token, if we hetero men do have an opinion, it is patently not tainted by self-interest!

[KellyM]

modro, I never said that squeamishness at the thought of gay sex was homophobia. I differentiate between that and negative attitudes toward homosexuality as an abstract concept, and it is the latter that I object to.

I don’t think my definition is significantly different from yours.

[Malthus]

*Originally posted by Malacandra *
**And by the same token, if we hetero men do have an opinion, it is patently not tainted by self-interest! **

You know, I didn’t consider that, but it is true.

Naturally, it leaves unanswered what the opinion (an I assume a negative opinion is meant) is tainted with. But clearly, it is not self-interest.

[sghoul]

Ok, so, there are homosexual sheep…so that means that it’s not a choice for Humans? Lions will kill each other, does that mean murder isn’t a choice? Heck, by that logic, what IS a choice?

[El_Elvis_Rojo]

I don’t see why someone can’t be accepting of the people and not of the action overall? I had two male friends get married this past weekend, and I found it great that these two friends of mine managed to find someone with whome they felt such a connection and love for, and I think that’s great!

Still, anal sex has absolutely NO appeal to me whatsoever. Even amongst heteros. I don’t like the thought of things interacting with my ass, and that’s just that. I don’t see how I can be all happy and excited for my two friends, and glad that they have their own happy and healthy sex life, yet still considered a homophobe because I don’t want to envision them getting it on and don’t feel comfortable getting hit on by other men. For you to call me a homophobe just proves you to be a biggot and the one with the problem.

[matt_mcl]

Here’s something I wrote on the subject a while back:

I’m sorry; if you think that the way I am is sinful based on the shape of someone else’s genitals, *you are an asshole. If you believe that the most beautiful and sacred thing that ever happened to me is evil and depraved because it came packaged with a Y chromosome, you are an asshole. If you don’t think our relationships are as good as yours because we can use the same bathroom at the Dairy Queen, you are an asshole. I don’t care if your deity told you so or you have a note from your mommy: you are an asshole. And the word for someone who is an asshole towards Queer people because they are Queer is homophobic. You are not as homophobic as someone who would like to beat me up, as if letting me go by unassaulted deserved some sort of a prize; but you are still homophobic.

And you don’t get a bye for being “compassionate” to Queer people, whatever that means. For one thing, you can be nice to Queer people and still be a homophobe, just like you can give up your seat to a black person on the metro and still be a racist. Furthermore, there is no “compassionate” way to believe that my life is depraved and I’m going to burn in hell, or even that I’m a sad and pathetic individual in a deplorable situation, just because I’m in love with Tom instead of Tammy. People who are disturbed by our existence or who think our equality is some kind of special right are pleased to convince themselves that being superficially polite to Queers they may meet in their day-to-day life balances out their homophobic frame of mind; but this is self-delusion. If they were really compassionate to Queer people, they would give up the moral angst on the basis of other people’s lives and genders, as a minimum.

But I don’t believe in abridging people’s rights because they are homophobic; that’s what makes me better than them. If I expect the government to protect my right to call you an asshole, I had better expect it to protect your right to talk like an asshole in the first place.

[matt_mcl]

*Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo *
**Still, anal sex has absolutely NO appeal to me whatsoever. Even amongst heteros. I don’t like the thought of things interacting with my ass, and that’s just that. I don’t see how I can be all happy and excited for my two friends, and glad that they have their own happy and healthy sex life, yet still considered a homophobe because I don’t want to envision them getting it on and don’t feel comfortable getting hit on by other men. For you to call me a homophobe just proves you to be a biggot and the one with the problem. **

Has anyone done this en serio? The question, as I see it, is not whether you consider anal sex personally unappealing. You have, believe it or not, freedom of consensual sexuality, which includes the right to choose not to have sex and/or not to engage in a specific sex act.

The question is whether you disapprove of two men or two women getting it on where you’re not involved. I don’t like mushrooms, but I don’t think it’s wrong for others to eat mushrooms, nor do I discriminate against fungivores.