# HomoPHOBIA?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [July 16, 2000, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731 "2000-07-16T10:32:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/1 "2000-07-16T10:32:24Z")
The word “homophobia” always struck me as a bit weird. To me, the suffix “phobia” means “a fear of” (it means that, right?). If someone doesn’t approve of homosexuality, but isn’t afraid of it in any way, is he homophobic? Should there be another word for this?
On a different note, I’m curious about something.
I’m straight, and I admit that the idea of homosexuality doesn’t sit 100% well with me. In fact, I find the prospect of having sex with another man so revolting that I don’t even know how women bring themselves to do it :p. I wouldn’t actually discriminate against a gay person or hurt someone for being gay (it’s not like being intolerant of gay people will be productive in any way), but I (as do most other people I know) consider calling a straight person gay a way of insulting him. I’m also glad that I’m straight (but mainly because it makes my life less complicated than it would be if I were gay).
Based on this, am I “homophobic” or an intolerant person? If it does, please tell me (but don’t flame me). It would be a personality that I’d try to get rid of (if it’s possible to actively do so).
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/2 "2000-07-16T10:45:35Z")
I believe the reason “homophobia” is used so often is because the stereotypical gay-hater is a religious, bible-thumping individual who is himself quite sexually repressed, and is indeed extremely frightened by the notion of homosexuality.
> [@](#):
>
> I’m straight, and I admit that the idea of homosexuality doesn’t sit 100% well with me. In fact, I find the prospect of having sex with another man so revolting that I don’t even know how women bring themselves to do it . I wouldn’t actually discriminate against a gay person or hurt someone for being gay … but I (as do most other people I know) consider calling a straight person gay a way of insulting him. …Based on this, am I “homophobic” or an intolerant person? If it does, please tell me (but don’t flame me). It would be a personality that I’d try to get rid of (if it’s possible to actively do so).
I don’t think so; being disgusted at a particular sexual act doesn’t make you homophobic, and being called [anything] that isn’t “normal” seems to be an insult in our culture.
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### Author:  [@nebuli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nebuli)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/3 "2000-07-16T13:52:57Z")
The word “homophobia” always struck me as a bit weird. To me, the suffix “phobia” means “a fear of” (it means that, right?). If someone doesn’t approve of homosexuality, but isn’t afraid of it in any way, is he homophobic? Should there be another word for this?
The “phobia” suffix is also used to mean “hatred of” - e.g. xenophobia = hatred of foreigners, anglophobia = hatred of things English, francophobia = hatred of things French, etc… According to the Random House Dictionary, in addition to having the meaning of fear, “-phobia” can also have the implication of hatred or aversion.
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### Author:  [@Zarathustra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zarathustra)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/4 "2000-07-16T14:08:14Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*On a different note, I’m curious about something.
> I’m straight, and I admit that the idea of homosexuality doesn’t sit 100% well with me. In fact, I find the prospect of having sex with another man so revolting that I don’t even know how women bring themselves to do it :p. I wouldn’t actually discriminate against a gay person or hurt someone for being gay (it’s not like being intolerant of gay people will be productive in any way), but I (as do most other people I know) consider calling a straight person gay a way of insulting him. I’m also glad that I’m straight (but mainly because it makes my life less complicated than it would be if I were gay).
> Based on this, am I “homophobic” or an intolerant person? If it does, please tell me (but don’t flame me). It would be a personality that I’d try to get rid of (if it’s possible to actively do so). \*\*
The thing I don’t get is how people who are identified as “homosexuals” are supposed to have been that way from birth, and “homosexuality” is supposedly an irrevocable part of their natures; but at the same time, it’s said that almost all people have some homosexual tendencies, so “homosexuality” isn’t really abnormal and therefore shouldn’t be discriminated against. Is it a tendency of varying degree, or is it an absolute, black or white condition?
And also, why is it that you’ll be accused of “gay-bashing” if you identify AIDS as a primarily homosexual disease, but if (especially as a politician) you are unsympathetic to AIDS-related charities or whatever, you’ll be accused of being “anti-gay”?
Things that make you go, hmm?
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### Author:  [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/5 "2000-07-16T15:32:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The thing I don’t get is how people who are identified as “homosexuals” are supposed to have been that way
> from birth, and “homosexuality” is supposedly an irrevocable part of their natures; but at the same time, it’s said
> that almost all people have some homosexual tendencies, so “homosexuality” isn’t really abnormal and
> therefore shouldn’t be discriminated against. Is it a tendency of varying degree, or is it an absolute, black or
> white condition?
It should be noted that you don’t present any sort of a conflict in your initial statements, even though you seem to be trying to be presenting some sort of paradox.
Ultimately, none of this matters at all. You are supposed to treat all people with a minimum level of acceptance and common decency. Homosexuality does not require justification any more than heterosexuality does. Homosexuality is not devient, it is not outside of the normal. It’s not something that requires you to hold a belief on it.
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### Author:  [@Zarathustra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zarathustra)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/6 "2000-07-16T16:25:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jayron 32 \*
> **It should be noted that you don’t present any sort of a conflict in your initial statements, even though you seem to be trying to be presenting some sort of paradox.**
I don’t mean to imply a paradox, but a certain level of cognitive dissonance in the political arguments surrounding homosexuality.
The message most people get from the mass media is that you have no right to criticize a person who engages in homosexual conduct, because (A) only certain people are hard wired for that behavior and therefore have no choice about it, and (B)the behavior itself can’t be criticized as abnormal, because _most people_ are potentially homosexual to a greater or lesser degree.
But if _most_ people have that potential, then how can you say that anyone practicing homosexuality was predestined to make that choice because he or she has “always” been that way? And if it _is_ a matter of choice, why can’t homosexuality be criticized like any other form of behavior?
I don’t really care about whether point (A) or (B) is correct or not; I’m only interested to learn whether anyone else feels these two popular arguments conflict with one another.
While we’re at it,
> [@](#):
>
> Homosexuality does not require justification any more than heterosexuality does. Homosexuality is not devient, it is not outside of the normal.
Sorry, are those arguments, or items of catechism? Please regard me as one of the ignorant, and enlighten me:
_Why_ should I believe that homosexual is just as justifiable as heterosexual behavior, and what do you mean by “justifiable”? From a biological standpoint, for example, what possible evolutionary advantage (or justification, if you prefer) would predominantly homosexual behavior confer on a member of any population of animals? What evolutionary advantage would the occurance of a high percentage of predominantly homosexual individuals confer on the population as a whole?
_Why_ should I regard homosexuality as “not outside of the normal”, and again, what do you mean by that? If you mean to imply that the percentage of individuals practicing homosexuality _predominantly_ falls within two or three standard deviations of the mean of the normal distribution curve, I’d like to see a cite on that, because I don’t believe it.
Zarathustra
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/7 "2000-07-16T16:25:56Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Is it a tendency of varying degree, or is it an absolute, black or white condition?
It’s hard to generalize, but it looks like homosexuality is on a continuum. There are some people who are solely homosexual; there are others who are solely heterosexual. However you can be somewhere in the middle, ranging from heterosexual with a rare gay fantasy or two, to heterosexual with a lot of gay fantasies, to heterosexual who has tried homosexuality once or twice, etc. The distribution of people on the continuum is a subject for a great debate.
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### Author:  [@Zarathustra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zarathustra)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/8 "2000-07-16T16:34:37Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \*
> \*\*
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Is it a tendency of varying degree, or is it an absolute, black or white condition?
>
> It’s hard to generalize, but it looks like homosexuality is on a continuum. There are some people who are solely homosexual; there are others who are solely heterosexual. However you can be somewhere in the middle, ranging from heterosexual with a rare gay fantasy or two, to heterosexual with a lot of gay fantasies, to heterosexual who has tried homosexuality once or twice, etc. The distribution of people on the continuum is a subject for a great debate.
> \*\*
OK then, if I accept this as fact, than how do I reconcile this with the popular argument that **anyone** who is a practicing homosexual _must_ be engaging in such behavior because he or she has _always, since the day of friggin’ conception,_ been destined to be a homosexual and nothing but a homosexual?
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### Author:  [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/9 "2000-07-16T17:09:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Zarathustra \*
> \*\*OK then, if I accept this as fact, than how do I reconcile this with the popular argument that **anyone** who is a practicing homosexual _must_ be engaging in such behavior because he or she has _always, since the day of friggin’ conception,_ been destined to be a homosexual and nothing but a homosexual? \*\*
Because they fall on the end of predominately homosexual, perhaps?
The reason you are seeing different arguments is because at there in no established cause of homosexuality. There are several theories, and there are people who will buy into one theory over another. However, at the moment, there are several medical and psychological organizations who agree that a persons sexuality is not a choice. They just can’t figure out whether the creation of sexuality is largely environmental or biological.
Why does something have to be justified on a Darwinian model? What is the justifiable reson for some people having blue eyes? Being left-handed? Being color blind? Being born a hermaphrodite? Why can’t we accept that there is a diversity to the human condition and because one is statistically more common than another doens’t really matter?
Yes, homosexuality is deviant. It deviates from the norm, but then again so does genius. I don’t recall anyone questioning the justification of having Einsteins about.
Now, onto your final point. AIDS. I can only give you my personal opinion. I find anyone calling AIDS a gay disease to be homophobic, rather I just find that irresponsible. It reinforces the idea that to get the disease you must be gay. Anyone recall the persecution Ryan White suffered in his community because he had a “gay disease”? Yes, AIDS is found more in the gay population in the US, but woirldwide it’s found more in heterosexual. That alone, should so that the virus pays no attention whatsoever to the sexuality of its host.
Now if a politician opposed AIDS funding, that doesn’t necessarily make him anti-gay. Though, if he’s doing it for the reason that AIDS is a “gay disease” and/or God’s punishment, then yes it makes him anti-gay. However, whatever his reasonings, opposing AIDS funding just makes him a poor excuse of a humantist. It’s a serious health threat in this country, and to try to withhold a cure because its a preventable disease or whatever is just beyond cold-hearted.
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### Author:  [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/10 "2000-07-16T17:18:29Z")
I can’t believe nobody corrected Nebuli on this
> [@](#):
>
> The “phobia” suffix is also used to mean “hatred of” - e.g. xenophobia = hatred of foreigners,
> anglophobia = hatred of things English, francophobia = hatred of things French, etc… According to
> the Random House Dictionary, in addition to having the meaning of fear, “-phobia” can also have
> the implication of hatred or aversion.
WTF?! Phobia means hate huh? Well, according to [http://www.m-w.com](http://www.m-w.com)
Phobia
> [@](#):
>
> an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular
> object, class of objects, or situation
Sure, fear usually leads to hatred, but phobia does NOT mean hate.
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### Author:  [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/11 "2000-07-16T17:35:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Why should I believe that homosexual is just as justifiable as heterosexual behavior
Do you justify why you are attracted to members of the opposite sex? Why should someone need to justify their sexual urges? Why should someone need to justify their love?
Homosexuality may have “reasons” but so the fuck what? It ultimately does not matter whether homosexuality is inborn, learned, or chosen: What right does that give you to disaprove of people who are homosexual? Sexual desire and sexual response are almost infinitely complex traits, and to simply assign a “reason” for any one individual’s particular traits is an egregious and erroneous oversimplification. Why are you attracted to the people YOU are attracted to? I’ll bet they are different reasons than mine for why I am attracted to who I am.
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### Author:  [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/12 "2000-07-16T17:43:59Z")
Well, despite the valiant attempt of my personal GQ hero **beakerxf** to keep this thread in the realm of General Questions, it’s pretty obviously going to have to go to Great Debates.
But not yet, please. Can we please stick to resolving the controversy around the meaning of “phobia” before getting to the other parts of the OP? I’d like to get that one resolved before sending the thread to the free-wheeling atmosphere of GD.
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### Author:  [@Dumb\_Ox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumb_Ox)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/13 "2000-07-16T17:52:00Z")
**pepperlandgirl** , go back to the [m-w site](http://www.m-w.com) and search “-phobia,” instead of “phobia.” **Nebuli** was talking about the suffix “-phobia” not the word “phobia.”
m-w says,
> [@](#):
>
> Main Entry: **-phobia**
> **Function:** noun combining form
> **1:** exaggerated fear of \
> **2:** intolerance or aversion for \
Usually, when people talk about homophobia they are using the latter definition, not the psycholological “phobia.”
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### Author:  [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/14 "2000-07-16T17:53:18Z")
[QUOTE]
\*Originally posted by pepperlandgirl \*
\*\*I can’t believe nobody corrected Nebuli on this
> [@](#):
>
> The “phobia” suffix is also used to mean “hatred of” - e.g. xenophobia = hatred of foreigners \*\*
The reason I didn’t correct him is because he wasn’t wrong. It all depends on where you look.
The meaing of “phobia”, according to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com), means “A strong fear, dislike, or aversion”
I’m curious what word would you strongly disliked, but didn’t fear, the English? What other word than “anglophobe” is there? It’s a serious question. What word ending could be used to indicate “strong dislike”?
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### Author:  [@beakerxf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beakerxf)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/15 "2000-07-16T18:14:30Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by beakerxf \*
> Now, onto your final point. AIDS. I can only give you my personal opinion. I find anyone calling AIDS a gay disease _to be homophobic_, rather I just find that irresponsible.
> \*\*
Sigh. Proofreading is your friend, Beaker.
What I meant to type was “I **don’t** find anyone calling AIDS a gay disease to be homophobic, merely irresponsible.”
It’s amazing how one missing word changes everything about what you say.
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### Author:  [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/16 "2000-07-16T18:24:16Z")
When phobia is used to me hatred it is an idiom. When one says anti-semite they don’t mean you are against ARABS but clearly ARABS are Semites.
They are idioms.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/17 "2000-07-16T18:34:32Z")
You know, strictly, homophobia means ‘hate or fear of one’s own group’, /homo-/ meaning ‘same or one’s own’ and /phobia-/ meaning ‘hate or fear of’. The preceding really means nothing to this argument, just thought it needed to be pointed ou in case anyone got pedantic.
Oh, and **markxxx** , you’re right on. Jesus was a semite, in fact. Just don’t expect to convince any anti-semites with that fact.
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### Author:  [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/18 "2000-07-16T18:37:21Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Derleth \*
> \*\*You know, strictly, homophobia means ‘hate or fear of one’s own group’, /homo-/ meaning ‘same or one’s own’ and /phobia-/ meaning ‘hate or fear of’. \*\*
Uh Oh…
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### Author:  [@jayron\_32](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayron_32)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/19 "2000-07-16T18:53:59Z")
/Homo-/ has two independent, unrelated meanings. From the greek /homo-/ meaning “same”(as in homogeneous) or the Latin /homo/ meaning “man” (as in /Homo Sapiens/ or “sentient man”; later derivatives include the French /homme/ and the Spanish /hombre/) The meaning of the word “homophobia” transends its apparent etymology; it would more properly be termed “homosexualphobia.” Words have meanings insofar as people give them meanings. Just because it would appear that homophobia means “fear or aversion of self” or “fear or aversion of man” does not mean that in any common usage it DOES have that meaning.
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### Author:  [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2000, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homophobia/25731/20 "2000-07-16T20:10:23Z")
I know. Just being a little strict with definitons. And don’t write off the two definitions of /homo-/ as being unrelated. After all, humans are the same as humans, giving /homo-/ meaning ‘same’ the meaning of ‘human’, or vice-versa. BTW, manny, don’t worry. (I assume that’s what ‘Uh oh’ means.) Everyone here knows I’m just being overly mechanical with the roots and what they mean.
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