# Homosex and Abort as matters of Choice **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 15, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416 "2004-10-15T17:54:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/21 "2004-10-15T21:16:43Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > Charles Darwin is my Lord and Master. I hear and obey, O Great Darwin. What is thy bidding, my Master? > It’s Skywalker we’re after. He’ll make a powerful ally. He will join us or die. We got Death Star! Duh. Move the fleet to the far side of the forest moon. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/22 "2004-10-15T21:34:46Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Seriously. I _think_ what the OP is saying is that Kerry and Bush are both making contradictory statements. Kerry (in the eyes of the OP) is saying that no, homosexuality isn’t a choice when it comes to, well, homosexuality, and then, with regard to abortion, he’s saying that you _do_ have a choice of what the outcome of your sexual activity will be. And then Bush does the oppisite. I agree, I think he is saying it that way, _however_ I do think that in history some women have actually chosen lesbianism as a way to get release and not get pregnant, but until someone finds diaries we will never know. I do know that if I had the choice of lesbianism or pregnancy and serious legal/social consequences I would have chosen lesbianism until I was actually legally married. I think that the rate of experimenting with same sex partners whether it is simpl mutual masturbation, masturbating each other or a full on homosexual encounter is far in excess of what people will fess up to. I know that I did my share of experimenting [though after I lost my cherry by a number of years] with just about everything except pedophilia, beastiality and necrophilia, and some of the kinkier ‘normal’ things like coprophilia, golden showers and full out pain. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/23 "2004-10-15T21:51:53Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > “ **Homosex and Abort?they’re cops!** ” > > _This fall, on the WB!_ > > . . . sorry . . . Why are you sorry? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/24 "2004-10-16T02:31:58Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > I read the OP 3 times, and I have absolutely no idea what the issue is. > > Maybe I just choose not to understand… 🙂 Or like in other threads, you can’t understand words in context. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/25 "2004-10-16T06:03:36Z")
Unfortunately, I understand the OP perfectly – which is disconcerting to one bordering on senior years and fearing a rapid deterioration into dementia. First, one has to clarify what is meant by _homosexuality_. It is possible to be a homosexual and to choose never to act upon ones desires. In that way, at least, there is choice. _That_ is the same kind of choice that compares with the choice to have an abortion or to bear a child. I think that is a different question from what was intended when Bush was asked the question during the debate – _Is homosexuality a choice?_ The moderator was asking whether people _choose_ to be homosexuals or whether they are that way by nature. The moderator could just as easily have said, “President Bush, do people choose to be heterosexual?” What would you have said? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/26 "2004-10-16T09:04:34Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > **Swipe to the left.** Swipe to the right! Stand up, sight down, fight fight fi… nevermind. > [@New Iskander](#): > > If idea of having sex with a person of opposite gender is not appealing to you, this is not your choice, it’s a decree of God or Charles Darwin, and there is nothing you can do about it. You absolutely, positively may not choose, period. What **New Iskander** is objecting to is John Kerry’s statement that, if elected, he will use force to compel gays to have lots of sex with each other. I agree, that was way out of line. National security comes first. > [@New Iskander](#): > > But if Heterosex is your cup of tea, if by decree of God or Charles Darwin, you crave sexual intimacy with opposite gender, which sooner or later inevitably leads to conception of New Life, then it’s your choice whether to bear the child into the world. It’s absolutely, positively entirely up to you. > > So you can’t choose what to do with your sex life, but you can control the outcome? I realize that lesser minds may have difficulty comprehending the meaning of this section of the text, which is admittedly obscure. However, after hanging upside down from the ceiling by my toes for the last few hours, I think I understand it. **New Iskander** means that Kerry, ever the biologist, has discovered that Darwin invented abortions in _On the Origin of Species_. Darwin believes, and Kerry proved in the third debate, that abortion is a biological imperative. Only the fittest fetuses are not aborted. > [@New Iskander](#): > > **Swipe to the right.** SNIKT! > [@New Iskander](#): > > If by decree of God or Charles Darwin, you crave sexual intimacy with opposite gender, which sooner or later inevitably leads to conception of New Life, then you must bear the child into the world. You absolutely, positively may not choose, period. And, if by decree of the opposite gender, you crace sexual intimacy with god or Charles Darwin, which sooner or later inevitably leads to the conception of New Life and New Civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before, you absolutely, positively must obey the Prime Directive. ooo-OOOOO-ooo-oo-o-oo-ooo-OOO… > [@New Iskander](#): > > But if Homosex is your cup of tea, if by decree of God or Charles Darwin, you crave sexual intimacy with your own gender, then it’s your choice whether to accept or suppress your innate wishes. It’s absolutely, positively entirely up to you. Mary Cheney drinks Lipton Tea because It’s BRISK, baby! > [@New Iskander](#): > > So you can choose what to do with your sex life, but you can’t control the outcome? You do realize you ended two statements about people’s sex lives with “come,” right? > [@New Iskander](#): > > **Conclusion** I think this post gave me a conclusion. > [@New Iskander](#): > > Why do we allow politicians to talk about all this? How do you propose to stop them? First Amendment and all. > [@New Iskander](#): > > It leads to nothing, it doesn’t solve anything, it allows them to keep people divided and confused. Because of course, people are not really divided over homosexuality and abortion, it’s just the politicians. And speaking of confused things that lead to nothing… > [@New Iskander](#): > > How many time was it repeated, “Get the politicians the hell out of other people bedrooms!” In Wednesday’s debate? I don’t think it was said once, let alone repeated. Do you mean said elsewhere? I don’t have a running tally. > [@New Iskander](#): > > In particular, rich and privilleged politicians “_with strong wives_”. No gasbag taking “_pride in his wife and children_” should be allowed to pontificate about homosexual life experiences, without experiencing that life beforehand, so they’d know first hand what they are talking about. In that case, **New Iskander** should not be allowed to pontificate about anything, because he has no experience being a Pontiff. > [@New Iskander](#): > > So, Sens. John & John, get a room and give each other a good fuck, then come back and talk from experience. I think we’d be better off if we kept politicians out of _everybody_’s bedrooms, including their own. > [@New Iskander](#): > > And Bob Shieffer, put your head between your thighs and fellate yourself for asking smug stupid questions. The question wasn’t smug, and I don’t think he looked that flexible. **New Iskander** , sexuality is not a choice. Who you have sex with is. I’m not sure how Kerry’s statements contradicted those facts. Bush either doesn’t know that it’s a biological thing or pretended not to so as to avoid saying something false and unpopular. How all that relates to your post is beyond me. I was kidding about hanging from the ceiling upside down, but this OP did give me a headache. It’s painfully stupid. On the plus side, I’m starting to think that soon your tenuous grip on reality will snap, and you’ll float into some other dimension like a kite in the breeze. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/27 "2004-10-16T14:16:41Z")
(H)omosex, (A)bort, ®etry, (F)ail? ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/28 "2004-10-16T14:23:10Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (H)omosex, (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail? (I seriously laughed out loud at that) ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/29 "2004-10-16T16:23:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > **New Iskander** , sexuality is not a choice. Who you have sex with is. Or you may chose not to have sex at all. Remember Christian anachorets, many of whom were very passionate people with huge libido, yet sublimated completely? So clearly, there is always a choice. Obviously, sexuality is a function of higher order then breathing, eating and shitting. It may be a function of the highest order, as it animates people spiritually as well as physically. So the choice must always be present. We all know that Kerry was pretty successful playing a heterosexual field, but that is hardly an excuse for him spewing ignorant BS on other variations of sexual identity in humans, assigning who belongs where. It reminded me of an interview I read with a well known gay person, who was making fun how all those politician and media types he meets always start by professing admiration for gay lifestyle, but become extremely uncomfortable when it comes to discussing the intimate specifics of this lifestyle. In pit vernacular, it pained me to see a successful Gigolo lecturing people on sexual matters other then hooking up with moody heiresses. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/30 "2004-10-16T16:27:47Z")
Why don’t these threads come with tinfoil? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/31 "2004-10-16T17:45:04Z")
Kerry is such a hypocrite He says you can pick your nose and that you can pick your friends, then he turns around and says you **CAN’T** pick your friends’ noses!! Make up your mind, flip-flopper! Pro-choice or no! Heartland America sees through you! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/32 "2004-10-16T17:59:39Z")
> [@](#): > > **Marley23** : I think this post gave me a conclusion. I had a conclusion once. You should lie flat on your back and have someone watch for certain symbols. Your post was worth the thread. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/33 "2004-10-16T18:11:29Z")
**New Iskander** : At the risk of having **Mockingbird** take a driveby swipe at me, I’m still not getting you. Are you operating from the assumption that sexuality, in general, is a choice? Not _having_ sex, but _to whom_ one is sexually attracted? (It’s “anchorite” or “anchoress,” BTW.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/34 "2004-10-16T18:54:01Z")
Is the issue that if you are straight you can do whatever you want, but if you are gay you have to be celibate and spend an entire life alone because it is icky or something? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/35 "2004-10-16T19:39:33Z")
Surely the point is clear. Whether you are gay, straight, a teenager considering sex, or even a drug addict, there is only one answer to your predicament. JUST SAY NO! This sorts out everything, and is what God intended. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/36 "2004-10-16T20:34:15Z")
BTW, Homosex does not go with Abort – indeed if you limit yourself to Homosex, there is no chance for Abort. However I suppose you can Abort the Homosex _(buggerus interruptus)_. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/37 "2004-10-17T02:21:31Z")
Does anyone else tihnk **New Isk** is channelling Zippy the Pinhead? “Homosex – abort! Homosex – abort! Homosex – abort!..” Or perhaps he’s announcing the gender of a hooker’s child? Ho! Mo sex? A bort! ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/38 "2004-10-17T02:32:15Z")
Blah, I guess the only “choice” is to be an anchoret, anchoress, whatever it is and just not ever have sex, because … well, just because. Just for the record, a lot of those “fine upstanding paragons of virtue” were party animals and sex hounds before they “saw the light”, and often they abandoned their families too. The “mighty” St. Augustine, that “shining light of wisdom and virtue” did exactly that. Then these same paragons had the unmitigated gall to preach to other people and denounce them for doing things that were far less despicable. Can you say Hypocrisy? I don’t know what the big hangup is, and why we still can’t get people to just mind their own business. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/39 "2004-10-17T05:01:30Z")
Well, since I couldn’t make heads or tails of the OP, I had it translated into Greek hoping that might help. This is the result: > [@](#): > > \*\*Ισχυρό κτύπημα στο δικαίωμα. > > Εάν από το διάταγμα του Θεού ή Charles Darwin, ποθείτε τη σεξουαλική οικειότητα με το αντίθετο γένος, όποιοι σύντομα ή αργότερα αναπόφευκτα οδηγεί στη σύλληψη τηςνέας ζωής, κατόπιν πρέπει να αντέξετε το παιδί στον κόσμο. Εσείς απολύτως, θετικά μπορεί να μην επιλέξει, περίοδος. > > Αλλά εάν Homosex είναι το φλυτζάνι τσαγιού σας, εάν από το διάταγμα του Θεού ή Charles Darwin, ποθείτε τη σεξουαλική οικειότητα με το γένος σας, κατόπιν είναι η επιλογή σας είτε για να δεχτεί είτε νακαταστείλει τις έμφυτες επιθυμίες σας. Είναι απολύτως, θετικά εξ ολοκλήρου μέχρι σας. > > Έτσι μπορείτε να επιλέξετε τι να κάνει με τη ζωή φύλων σας, αλλά δεν μπορείτε να ελέγξετε την έκβαση; > Συμπέρασμα > > Γιατί επιτρέπουμε στους πολιτικούς για να μιλήσουμε για όλοαυτό; Οδηγεί σε τίποτα, δεν λύνει τίποτα, επιτρέπει σε τους για να κρατήσει τους ανθρώπους διαιρεμένους καισυγκεχυμένους. > > Πόση φορά ήταν επανέλαβε, "Πάρτε τους πολιτικούς η κόλαση από άλλες κρεβατοκάμαρεςανθρώπων!"Ειδικότερα, οι πλούσιοι και οι πολιτικοί “με τις ισχυρές συζύγουσ”. Κανένα gasbag που υπερηφανεύεται “για τη σύζυγο και τα παιδιάτου” δεν πρέπει να επιτραπεί στην αρχιερωσύνη για τηνομοφυλοφιλική εμπειρία ζωής, χωρίς να δοκιμάσει εκείνη την ζωή εκ των προτέρων, έτσι they’d ξέρτε το πρώτο χέρι τι μιλούν για. > > Έτσι, Sens. Θ\*Ιοχν & John, πάρτε ένα δωμάτιο και δώστε σε μεταξύ τους ένα καλό fuck, κατόπιν και συζήτηση από την εμπειρία. > > Και βαρίδι Shieffer, βάλτε το κεφάλι σας μεταξύ των μηρών σας και fellate των ίδιωνγια το ερώτημα των αυτάρεσκων ηλίθιων ερωτήσεων. \*\* There. Now it’s all Greek to me. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416/40 "2004-10-17T08:24:00Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I don’t know what the big hangup is, and why we still can’t get people to just mind their own business. Because, dear sir, your business is far more interesting than mine… 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosex-and-abort-as-matters-of-choice/269416.md?page=3)