# Homosexual Marriage: Why OSC is against it. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 26, 2004, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663 "2004-12-26T08:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/61 "2004-12-28T07:25:55Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > Okay, I’d like to shout out a genuine apology to the gay community for appearing biggoted. Wow, that makes the crushing despair of being surrounded by bigotry and malice so much easier to take. > [@](#): > > But honestly, I do think it’s wrong. How? Why? What about me hurts me? Hurts other people? How does my love harm anyone, anywhere, in any way? And if it harms no one, how can it be wrong? > [@](#): > > My opinions might not be yours, so you may not think them valid. But to me they are. And I am entitled to my have an opinion. And I am entitled to a vote. And I will always vote my conscience. Your conscience requires that I be denied the right to visit the person I love in the hospital? Your conscience requires that I die alone without the comfort of the only person I truly love with me? Your conscience requires that I be ineligible for joint custody of our children, should we adopt any? Your conscience requires that I not be considered his next of kin in any way, shape or form by our government? Your conscience requires that the government go out of its way to regularly remind me, my love and the world that I am less than you, less deserving and less wholesome? That says a lot about you. > [@](#): > > And it’s wrong to try to influence other people to go against their hearts. What do you think the Conservative Christian nazis attempt to do day in and day out to gays? > [@](#): > > I consider the continuing acceptance of homosexuality a threat to morality and a continuing threat to family values. How? Specifically, how? Stop dodging the damn question, look me in the eyes and tell me how my life, my love – my very existence – somehow threaten your family. Tell me how I hurt other people because I’m somehow immoral. Tell me all the evil that I do. Tell me, or stop saying this. Stand your ground or back down your bigotted bluster. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/62 "2004-12-28T07:27:02Z")
The more of Card’s claptrap I read, the more I think he’s just peeved that he can’t have multiple wives because he’s too famous and wouldn’t be able to get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![infamousmom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d6d6ee/32.png) [@infamousmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infamousmom)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/63 "2004-12-28T07:33:53Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > I consider the continuing acceptance of homosexuality a threat to morality and a continuing threat to family values. Explain, please, how this works. What kind of “family values” can possibly be “threatened” by divorcing biology from theology and facing biological facts? There is no secular reason why two people of the same gender cannot marry. And, like it or not, marriage is a secular contract. Your preacher can thunder all day if he wants to, but you’re not married till you get the right number of signatures on the state’s paperwork. Period. Also: Do you go to a doctor who knows no more than doctors did in Saul of Tarsus’ day? Do you set out on every trip with only Herodotus as your guide? When you look up in the sky do you hear the music of Ptolemy’s spheres? No? You take advantage of human progress in every other way? Then why do you insist on accepting the imaginings of a bunch of barely-settled sheep herders as, you should pardon the expression, gospel truth when it comes to human biology? Not even Saul of Tarsus ever decreed “Thou shalt never learn anything new.” ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/64 "2004-12-28T10:32:48Z")
Sorry, bub. You’re not escaping that easily. **prisoner6655321** I asked your opinion on my current situation. I want an answer and the reason behind your answer, based on the facts in evidence. Do you have any clue what it’s like to be told it’s immoral for you to want the things most people take for granted? Do you know what it’s like for someone to be insulted because you smiled at him or found him attractive? Do you know what it’s like to look at happy couples walking around holding hands and be certain that won’t happen to you because society won’t allow it? I do. To wish that fate on someone is cruel and, in my opinion, un-Christian in that it violates the Commandment Christ gave us. Are you prepared to live a life not only deprived of sex but of comfort and affection from someone you love and who returns that love? That’s what you’re moral stance is depriving homosexuals of. Talk show host Larry King is on his 6th wife. Is he really less of a threat to marriage than a friend of mine who’s been with his partner for over a decade? Answers are appreciated, but not expected. Respectfully, Siege ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/65 "2004-12-28T10:54:51Z")
**prisoner6655321** , I’d like to make a suggestion. Please read [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=135183) so you can get an understanding of the sort of immoral behaviour opposition to homosexuality can promote. Are homosexuals really less moral than those who did some of the things described here? Respectfully, Siege ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/66 "2004-12-28T19:40:04Z")
Notice how they always flee when the hard questions come. When they have to answer to the pain and suffering their positions cause specific gay people on this board. When they have to actually back up their empty rhetoric about gay people damaging America’s values or families. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/67 "2004-12-28T19:59:12Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Notice how they always flee when the hard questions come. Maybe the hard questions would have been answered if they hadn’t been accompanied by such vitriol. There wasn’t any need for this thread to become such a pile-on. Geez, who wants to stick around for that? ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/68 "2004-12-28T20:04:49Z")
People who support evil and discrimination deserve whatever they get. And things only tend to become pile ons when the person backing evil tries to dodge hard questions – others pile on trying to force answers. Never shed any tears for the bigots. They deserve nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/69 "2004-12-28T20:07:16Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Yet neither you nor that bigotted turd Orson Scott Card (I, too, have recently destroyed all of my Ender books and will never recommend them nor read anything by him again) How recently? What was your method of destruction? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/70 "2004-12-28T20:10:26Z")
I feel like I just swam in slime. Prisoner–and how apt a moniker–for you truly are one. Bigotry is bigotry. This quote shocked me off my chair: But what else would be at the root of children murdering one another? You seriously think that Columbine et al was caused by the desire on the part of homosexuals to be married? WTF? Do you know the meaning of the word “demonizing”? Do you KNOW any gay people? What thing/beast/creature have you built up in your mind that represents gay people to you? You are not in touch with reality, but you are mindfucking your worst fears–this whole thread says more about YOU and your inability to cope in today’s world than anything else. And of course you ran away once your fixed notions were challenged–that’s what bigots do. Oh, and the perpetrators of all those school shootings? The products of “stable”, HETERO families. How dare you call yourself Christian? How dare you say you support family values? I have a hetero family and I want none of your “stability” or your “values”. Your brand of “faith” makes me ill. I need a shower. Ugh and yick. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/71 "2004-12-28T20:14:07Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > How recently? > > What was your method of destruction? 😉 Umm… as soon as I finished Children of the Mind. I tore 'em up and shredded 'em (I love my shredder) and threw the shreds away. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/72 "2004-12-28T20:20:06Z")
I’m just glad Card is such a vastly over-rated writer. Made it much easier for me to swear off reading his books. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/73 "2004-12-28T20:23:55Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Umm… as soon as I finished Children of the Mind. I tore 'em up and shredded 'em (I love my shredder) and threw the shreds away. You forget to burn them. The shreds may reform back together, T-1000 style if you don’t! ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/74 "2004-12-28T20:27:16Z")
Even though my boyfriend is German, I don’t think any of us would like the idea of being book burners. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![amphibian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8797f3/32.png) [@amphibian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amphibian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/75 "2004-12-28T21:04:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Marriage Is Already Open to Everyone. > > In the first place, no law in any state in the United States now or ever has forbidden homosexuals to marry. The law has never asked that a man prove his heterosexuality in order to marry a woman, or a woman hers in order to marry a man People really do take the piss with arguments like this. I guess he missed the fact that some homosexuals love each other, or is marriage really ONLY about the “the rights of husbandhood” that don’t have anything to do with love-tax benefits? Who’s defending the sancitity of marriage here? > [@](#): > > The fanatical Left will insist that anyone who upholds the fundamental meaning that marriage has always had, everywhere, until this generation, is a “homophobe” and therefore mentally ill. > > Which is the modern Jacobin equivalent of crying, “Off with their heads!” This statement is hilariously WRONG. Saying someone who thinks gays don’t deserve equality is a homophobe is equivalent to being pro-mass murder, okay guys? And where did “mentally ill” come from? I know some phobias are illnesses, but as has been hashed out on this board endlessly, one does not need to be fearful of gays to be homophobic. Basically he’s drawing his own conclusions (that homophobic person=mentally ill person) to prove that the left think bigots like him are “mentally ill”. I don’t think that kind of statement is “widespread” at all. **prisoner** , care to disagree? > [@spectrum](#): > > I hope history is just as kind to you Same here, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/76 "2004-12-29T01:50:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The fanatical Left will insist that anyone who upholds the fundamental meaning that marriage has always had, everywhere, until this generation, is a “homophobe” and therefore mentally ill. This is especially amusing, given that many in the homophobe community accuse gays of being sexual deviant perverts who want to rape little kids, who should be locked up and jailed for having sex with those they love. If homophobia was truly a mental illness, I would have pity for those who suffered from it, and would want to help them. But it’s not illness-it’s just plain ol’ hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/77 "2004-12-29T02:29:15Z")
I’ve a two-part question: Who the hell is Orson Scott Card and why the hell should anyone care what he thinks on this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/78 "2004-12-29T02:34:42Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I’ve a two-part question: > > Who the hell is Orson Scott Card and why the hell should anyone care what he thinks on this issue? He’s a sci-fi author and a prominent member of the LDS church, IIRC. I’m afraid I can’t help with the second part of your question. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/79 "2004-12-29T03:20:05Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I’ve a two-part question: > > Who the hell is Orson Scott Card and why the hell should anyone care what he thinks on this issue? Most notably, he’s the author of _Ender’s Game_ widely (and unjustly, IMO) considered to be one of the greatest works of science fiction. It’s sort of the _Catcher in the Rye_ of sf. Aparently, if you read it whilst in your angsty teenager phase, it has a lot of resonance. I guess I came to it too late, because I never saw what the big deal was. He writes only slightly better than he reasons. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663/80 "2004-12-29T03:35:22Z")
> [@prisoner6655321](#): > > I’ve been watching as kids kill each other in schools. I’ve been watching the streets become more and more dangerous at night. I’ve been watching halloween change from a light and fun filled candy filled night for the kids, to a night where kids aren’t allowed outside. I’ve been watching as selfish people sue companies for millions for spilling their own coffee on themselves. I could go on but you get my meaning. Now of course SSM isn’t to blame for any of this since SSM didn’t really exist until now. But the devaluation of the family, lack parental supervision, and reduction of good role models IS to blame. SSM continues that trend, IMO. Yes, I get your meaning. Same sex marriages disgust you and you will come up with any sort of illogical rubbish to justify yourself. I see you blame a single incident of a person suing McDonalds on devaluation of the family, lack parental supervision, and reduction of good role models. :rolleyes: Aside from the facts that McDonalds were selling the coffee at too high a temperature and had been previously warned about this practice, would you like to demonstrate that the person bringing the lawsuit lacked parental supervision and good role models? No, I thought not. Or can we take your ‘logic’ and say that same sex marriages are responsible for global warming, terrorism and inflation? Does **your** inability to reason have anything to do with **your** upbringing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexual-marriage-why-osc-is-against-it/281663.md?page=5)