# Homosexuality, a crime ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 29, 2000, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687 "2000-02-29T00:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/21 "2000-02-29T14:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by siva: > **Well now I didn’t get to read the entire thread, so I’m not too sure if someone has mentioned this, but it seems odd to me that you send people that committed a homosexual act to prison, where I have heard homosexual activity is common.** This reminds me of something a local comedian, Stoney Burke, said during one of his daily “speeches” at my former campus: "I hear now they want to put people in jail for sodomy. (Pause) In JAIL!? Where they can get even MORE of it!?" * * * “Shut up! I’m having a rhetorical conversation!” ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/22 "2000-02-29T14:55:00Z")
Hey, Orion - I’m a homo. Let’s adopt! > [@](#): > > I belive that they who practice this sort of behavior and is caught, must stay in prison for 1 or 2 year. Never mind - let’s take an English class! Esprix * * * Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you. ---
**Author:** ![ORION\_ORION](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@ORION\_ORION](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ORION_ORION)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/23 "2000-02-29T16:37:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi: > \*\*ORION. > > We do not live in a theocracy, therefore appeals to religion are insufficient to argue for legislation. If you wish to live in a theocracy, there are several in the Middle East that you might like. I hear some of them are quite harsh in their punishments of homosexual behavior. > > If you wish to argue that a secular republic should adopt laws concerning the behavior of its citizens, then you will have to provide **reasoning** to support your position. > > “I don’t like it!” is the whine of a child, not the argument of an adult. Please try something more substantial. > > \*\* If you go back 30-40 year, when homosexual activity was illegal in most counties (also in Western Europe), you will see that these nations wasn’t theocracy. And look at East Europe, -these countries where and are atheistic. The Middle East have an extreme way to deal with this, you can’t compere these nations with Europe, America and Ocenania (and parts of Asia). (In the Middle East one seems to get killed if you steal an apple) Many democratic nations have a law against this. (but of course, not in West-Europe & North America anylonger) My view is that the gay movement in USA, in the 70’s (“when they startet to come out and be proud about it”), did very much harm to society, both in US and rest of the world. I just gonna say one thing: AIDS If this act was illegal, I believe that many life would have been spared. Mostly the lives of gay men. I have the impression that many gay men have lost a partner because of AIDS. My opinion is that a persion who are involved in homosexual act is doing great injustice to the society and himselfe/herselfe. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/24 "2000-02-29T16:47:00Z")
Orion, how old are you? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/25 "2000-02-29T17:07:00Z")
ORION, all we’re asking for is _one_ just _ **one** _ verifiable, justifiable, reasonable objection. Not “it did a lot of damage”, not “AIDS!”, not "I think . . . ". AIDS, for instance, can be transmitted by heterosexual sex, by mother to child through the placenta, by tainted blood transfusion, and by sharing “dirty” needles. Homosexual sex just happened to be the vector by which it reached the US and Europe. In Asia and Africa nearly all cases are transmitted by heterosexual sex. Want to outlaw that too? And if you want to find a mode of sex that’s probably least responsible for the spread of AIDS, talk to some lesbians. Their risk factors are lower than homosexual men, heterosexual women, and heterosexual men, so according to your article, we should outlaw all sex **but** lesbian sex (the guys would only get to watch). So, you don’t like homosexual sex, Orion. Okay. So don’t _have_ any. I don’t much like brussel sprouts. I don’t eat any. I also don’t try to outlaw other people from eating brussel sprouts or try to declare brussel sprout eating as a sin against God and decent, moral people. But I’m silly that way. Your personal preferences and religious beliefs are your own. Revel in them. Just don’t try to force me to live by them. If you do, I will take a crowbar and pack your ass with brussel sprouts in defense of my own rights. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/26 "2000-02-29T17:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by siva: > you send people that committed a homosexual act to prison, where I have heard homosexual activity is common Not quite. In this case, you are comparing homosexuality to rape. This is a second cousin to saying that women who are raped are not only asking for it, but enjoy it. To imply that prison is a homosexual’s paradise is naive, at best. ---
**Author:** ![Flypsyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Flypsyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flypsyde)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/27 "2000-02-29T17:31:00Z")
Okay, let me get this straight. First off, Orion, you believe that homosexuals should be forced to deny their nature in order to make you feel more comfortable about your society. Sorry, but we’re guaranteed to the right to pursue our own happiness as citizens of these United States. And these are _our_ gay citizens; they should be able to enjoy the same rights as the rest of us do. > [@](#): > > But is this just a “privacy” matter anylonger. They want to marry, adopt etc.You can’t just say that this is so very private anylonger. This have some consequences for society as well. They just don’t wanna stay in they’re home anylonger an be “private”. By your definition, then, heterosexual marriages are not private either, as you’re using them as a benchmark for behavior of gay marriages as well. I don’t know if you’re having sex or married yet, but if you stand behind this legislation, you better kiss blowjobs and anal sex with your wife/girlfriend goodbye: **sodomy** 1. copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal 2. non-coital and especially anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex. We’re talking about consensual sex between two parties, neither of which is you. I can’t believe you have any say in it whatsoever. So no, I don’t think it should be a crime again, and no, I don’t believe they should be sentenced to prison. Society would be far better served if law enforcement agencies spent their time and money investigating hate crimes and imprisoning perpetrators of hate crimes. * * * “I’ll give you guys a dollar if you make out _right now_.” -Vblaise, coaxing forth the mating ritual of reluctant Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/28 "2000-02-29T17:36:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Rainbowcsr: > Now, since the condition of Homosexuality is genetic, one can assume that they have no control over their sexual polarity. While I agree with the spirit of your post, I’m not sure about this one fact. Is homosexuality genetic? I know 2 sets of identical twins where one is gay and the other straight. Nature? Nurture? It seems to be neither. But actually, I think the nurture component comes out on top here. Even in the womb, differing positions of the foetuses (foetii? foetum?) can influence personality. Identical twins, therefore, are never truly identical. So “nurture” would seem to be the deciding factor. But in a very subtle way. Not in such a way that parents can say “oh, if only we’d spanked Billy more and made him go to church, he wouldn’t be gay.” t “i’m straight, but i do like _some_ show tunes” dn ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/29 "2000-02-29T17:43:00Z")
[hijack] tdn, you’re from snopes, aren’t you? Welcome aboard, mister! The board there was very kind to us while ours was down. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/30 "2000-02-29T17:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by tdn: > > Is homosexuality genetic? This has been discussed in the GD thread of the same name, and I have ranted on and on and on about this and related issues in the Pit. Let’s not get into them _again_ as they’ve been done to death. Esprix * * * Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/31 "2000-02-29T17:44:00Z")
Flinx wrote: > [@](#): > > You can’t criminalize a way of thinking that wasn’t chosen but rather was thrust upon someone, IMHO. Except we have (“we” meaning the general public), and we continue to do so – especially if we feel that the way of thinking in question infringes upon the rights of others. Pedophiles probably don’t choose their sexual preference for children any more than homosexuals choose their sexual preference for same-sex partners, yet pedophilia is criminalized because we feel it infringes on the rights of children (and, indirectly, the children’s parents). Homosexuality is currently tolerated because we (again, “we” meaning the general public) have finally gotten it through our thick skulls that homosexual behavior between consenting adults infringes upon no one’s rights. * * * The truth, as always, is more complicated than that. ---
**Author:** ![ORION\_ORION](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@ORION\_ORION](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ORION_ORION)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/32 "2000-02-29T17:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by phouka: > \*\*ORION, all we’re asking for is _one_ just _ **one** _ verifiable, justifiable, reasonable objection. Not “it did a lot of damage”, not “AIDS!”, not "I think . . . ". > > AIDS, for instance, can be transmitted by heterosexual sex, by mother to child through the placenta, by tainted blood transfusion, and by sharing “dirty” needles. Homosexual sex just happened to be the vector by which it reached the US and Europe. In Asia and Africa nearly all cases are transmitted by heterosexual sex. Want to outlaw that too? > > And if you want to find a mode of sex that’s probably least responsible for the spread of AIDS, talk to some lesbians. Their risk factors are lower than homosexual men, heterosexual women, and heterosexual men, so according to your article, we should outlaw all sex **but** lesbian sex (the guys would only get to watch). > > So, you don’t like homosexual sex, Orion. Okay. So don’t _have_ any. I don’t much like brussel sprouts. I don’t eat any. I also don’t try to outlaw other people from eating brussel sprouts or try to declare brussel sprout eating as a sin against God and decent, moral people. But I’m silly that way. > > Your personal preferences and religious beliefs are your own. Revel in them. Just don’t try to force me to live by them. If you do, I will take a crowbar and pack your ass with brussel sprouts in defense of my own rights.\*\* To phouka It was among the homosexuals it startet, …and exploded. This is a well known fact, and I mean FACT. Just see the movie “The bands remain the same” with Richard Gere, Alan Alda & Phil Collins. It’s a sirious TV-movie from 1993-94, and it’s not very anti-gay. And that’s just one source. “Dirty needles”, yes! but not so much as among gay men. Many African people are uneducated and have little knowledge of prevs. Prostitution are very widespread in both Africa and Asia (except in moslem countries). By the way, it started later in Asia and Africa. (Many say that it came from Africa orginally, but the disease exploded among gays in US, you can’t escape that fact) I believe in God, but a christian: I’m not shure. I Also believe that christianity is a heritage from our ancestors. We should show some respect for that. (important for America, Europe & Australia + NZ.) And as I stated earlier: Many East-European nations have atheism as religion. This is not just a religious question. To Esprix: I’m 26 ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/33 "2000-03-01T06:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Many African people are uneducated and have little knowledge of prevs. What are “prevs”? > [@](#): > > I Also believe that christianity is a heritage from our ancestors. We should show some respect for that. Homosexuality is a heritage from our ancestors, too. Look at the ancient Greeks. We should show some respect for that. > [@](#): > > Many East-European nations have atheism as religion. **Atheism is not a religion**. > [@](#): > > This is not just a religious question. Well, your only other objections seem to be on the grounds of personaly discomfort or diseases (diseases which drug users and heterosexuals are also subject to, as phouka has noted). > [@](#): > > To Esprix: I’m 26 I’m 24. I’m also appalled. Please pick up a book on grammar, logical reasoning and learn to use a spell-check and/or a dictionary. You’re making my generation look bad. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/34 "2000-03-01T06:12:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by phouka: > [hijack] tdn, you’re from snopes, aren’t you? Welcome aboard, mister! The board there was very kind to us while ours was down. [/hijack] Yep, that’s moi. Thanks for the welcome. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Esprix: > This has been discussed in the GD thread of the same name, and I have ranted on and on and on about this and related issues in the Pit. Let’s not get into them _again_ as they’ve been done to death. Sorry. I’m the new kid (hanging my head in shame). ---
**Author:** ![ORION\_ORION](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@ORION\_ORION](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ORION_ORION)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/35 "2000-03-01T06:24:00Z")
To Gaudere prevs. = contraceptions (sorry, my misstake) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/36 "2000-03-01T06:49:00Z")
Are you going to apologize for all your other mistakes, too? ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/37 "2000-03-01T06:55:00Z")
David: Are you simply being facetious? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/38 "2000-02-29T19:09:00Z")
David B:woof woof! hi puppy! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Flypsyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Flypsyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flypsyde)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/39 "2000-02-29T19:16:00Z")
I smell toast… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/40 "2000-02-29T19:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by tracer: > \*\*Except we have (“we” meaning the general public), and we continue to do so – especially if we feel that the way of thinking in question infringes upon the rights of others. Pedophiles probably don’t choose their sexual preference for children any more than homosexuals choose their sexual preference for same-sex partners, yet pedophilia is criminalized because we feel it infringes on the rights of children (and, indirectly, the children’s parents). > \*\* Pedophilia, as way of thinking, is not illegal. Member posted 02-29-2000 11:56 AM > [@](#): > > Many East-European nations have atheism as religion.ORION\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*ORION Can you name one European country without a Christian majority (other than Turkey)? And how is AIDS relevant? Do you think that allowing gay marriage, thus encouraging monogamy, will _increase_ the incidence of AIDS? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687.md?page=3)