# Homosexuality, a crime ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 29, 2000, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687 "2000-02-29T00:00:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/61 "2000-02-29T20:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > This level of incoherence is beginning to look deliberate . . . Yes, I’ve been suspecting this as well. Still, it does not do to understimate the awesome breadth of ignorance and stupidity. I will wait and see. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/62 "2000-02-29T20:43:00Z")
Esprix: > [@](#): > > David, please, he is but young and knows not of what he speaks. If you smote him thus, he will not learn from his erroneous ways. Have mercy! To hell with that. . .this little pisher needs to be brought up short. Repeatedly. Get 'im, David! Waste Flick Lives! ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/63 "2000-02-29T20:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by ORION\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*ORION: > > AIDS was just one side of homosexual behavior. It’s much more of a moral and a social question to me than consequences like Aids. I don’t hate them, but when they want to marry (domestic partners), and adopt I must say what is right, Right! What do you think of interracial marriages? > [@](#): > > The gay liberation gave us aids, gay marriage, and now they can adopt children (In New York and maybe The Netherlands) > I see this lifestyle as a perverted version of what’s normal and I can’t possible give my blessing to this lifestyle. Have you ever read any professional psychological literature on the subject of homosexuality? And adoption laws vary from state to state in the US - some have specifically barred same-sex couples from adopting and foster parenting, but many allow it as a matter of course. > [@](#): > > People who practices homosexuality should be sentenced to prison. If I think Judaism is immoral, should we jail them for their choice, too? Esprix * * * Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/64 "2000-02-29T20:47:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Just see the movie “The bands remain the same” with Richard Gere, Alan Alda & Phil Collins. Not to mention a killer soundtrack by Led Zeppelin! **DNFTT** Dr. J * * * “Seriously, baby, I can prescribe anything I want!” -Dr. Nick Riviera ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/65 "2000-02-29T20:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by ORION\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*ORION: > > You can say anything you want about the cause of the AIDS plague, but I know that I have the majority and the facts on my side. No, you do not - just believing it doesn’t make it true. If you can’t cite sources, stop spreading lies. [QUOTEQuestion to you: do you think that a man who penetraits an another man in anus is normal! You know beter my friend.[/QUOTE] What business is it of yours? And why are you so concerned about who puts what where? > [@](#): > > It’s still among gay men, because (if this is true) it’s just a exception for a short periode of time. It’s almost always been among gays that Aids have had good conditions in the long run. Just ask some gay men in theyre 30’s- 40’s if they have lost a partner in the past which died of this. And how sad will his parent & relatives be. And please go to Africa and ask the thousands upon thousands of men, women and children who have lost children, siblings and parents. AIDS exists in a very different way outside the United States. > [@](#): > > You are on thin ice here. You don’t seem to realize where you’re skating either, pal. > [@](#): > > If this behaviro have been illegal, the Aids plague have been insignificant. Have you ever even _heard_ of the Bill of Rights? The Constitution? This country was founded on freedom, not imprisoning people for being icky. > [@](#): > > These men should get them selves a nice girl to have some fun with instead of fooling around with boys. And you’re a moron with not two iotas of intelligence or life experience to rub together. Anybody seen the Clue Fairy? She’s got a clean-up in aisle six! Esprix * * * Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you. ---
**Author:** ![SqrlCub](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SqrlCub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SqrlCub)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/66 "2000-02-29T21:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by ORION\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\***ORION: > \*\* If this behaviro have been illegal, the Aids plague have been insignificant.** Actually, when AIDS was spreading amongst gay men, homosexuality was still illegal in most of the states. Some states still have sodomy laws on the books (Virginia for one) for some silly reason. The real question here is _should it be a crime if there is no victem?_ I would think by the very nature of the word crime that one would conjure up images of at least one person ending with a detrimental action incurring to them. It was mentioned that x’ians were put to death for converting in some middle eastern country. It may be a crime there but isn’t this analogy closer to the homosexuality analogy? They didn’t harm anyone specifically and were only going towards what their nature assured them was the correct way. As for AIDS being primarily a gay disease you are just wrong. [http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv\_aids/pubs/facts.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/pubs/facts.htm) has multiple links regarding the population of HIV infected people. Notice, they are not all gay men. [http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv\_aids/graphics/images/l178/l178-7.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/graphics/images/l178/l178-7.htm) shows that there are currently more Black people with HIV than white people. This assumes you follow the stereotype that most gay men are white and middle class. [http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv\_aids/graphics/images/l178/l178-16.htm](http://www.cdc.gov/nchstp/hiv_aids/graphics/images/l178/l178-16.htm) shows the statistics of HIV infected individuals as related to sexuality. Since there is no way to know what the unidentified person’s sexuality is then the HIV rates are about equal between gay and straight people. If you look further into it and apply the generous 25% gay population to the unidentified, then it would indeed be significantly higher. Also, among those groups of people who are currently HIV infected, black women are by far the fastest rising group. I guess the people black women decide to sleep with should be thrown in jail now instead since they are obviously infecting the population the most, currently. HUGS! Sqrl * * * [SqrlCub’s Arizona Adventure](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/005351.html) ---
**Author:** ![ORION\_ORION](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4491bb/32.png) [@ORION\_ORION](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ORION_ORION)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/67 "2000-02-29T21:26:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by weirddave: > \*\*Quote: Name one. Just one, a simple request. Not a lot. o-n-e. one. (1). How hard can that be? And since you said “consequences for society”, No fair trying to justify your particular brand of religious intolerance. ONE " consiquence for society ". > \*\* consequenses for society: Teens which are growing up becomes disturbed by all these abnormalities flowting everywhere. People have less/no moral limits to stick to. Homosexuals are making the holy marriage a filthy business. They mock normal marriage by having some sort of perverted cermony of they’re own. Gay adopting is child molesting. He grows up with two dads, or two mammys. Bad influence for the child: sexual orientaiting etc. And think about when the child is bringing some friends home and precents them to his daddys. He will not be easily accepted by other children. Gays who wanna adopt must have a superego. (should people like that go free around ?) Gays and lesbians goes step by step. Now they wanna be priest etc. So maybe they can change the theology. Because they know that the Bible condemns it. And this is maybe they’re last barriere. If they can crush the church, they can crush what’s normal and most rules in a society. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/68 "2000-02-29T21:30:00Z")
I’m officially calling this one a lost cause. Esprix * * * Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you. ---
**Author:** ![Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nu_Vo_Da_Da)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/69 "2000-02-29T21:37:00Z")
Could someone please paraphrase what Orion said there? I really couldn’t understand too much of it, and I’d honestly like to argue(at least as much as is possible) but it was, well, incomprehensible. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/70 "2000-02-29T21:40:00Z")
Sure, Orion said: > [@](#): > > …must have a superego. (should people like that go free around ?) ## He’s advocating having himself locked up. Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it. ---
**Author:** ![Falcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falcon)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/71 "2000-02-29T21:51:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Gays and lesbians goes step by step. Now they wanna be priest etc. NEWSFLASH! THEY ALREADY ARE! There are plenty of gay priests. Good lord, what will we do! The same thing we’ve always done…nothing. Seems to me having gay priests in the Catholic Church for over 1000 years hasn’t done TOO much damage. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/72 "2000-02-29T21:54:00Z")
Now, now, Esprix. . .the fun is just beginning. Orion > [@](#): > > Teens which are growing up becomes disturbed by all these abnormalities flowting everywhere. “Disturbed”, how? Is that “disturbed” analogous to “curious”? To “appalled”? What? > [@](#): > > People have less/no moral limits to stick to. Help me out here: Most of the folk who I encounter who share your (ahem) views, feel that society has already gone to hell in a truck. I’m also told that soiety already has no morality. So it sounds like you’ve now prophesied the present. Pretty neat trick, that. > [@](#): > > Homosexuals are making the holy marriage a filthy business. They mock normal marriage by having some sort of perverted cermony of they’re own. Now, now, Orion. Remember when you were told to leave your religious views out of this? Also, I’ve been to ceremonies wherein two people of the same gender publicly proclaim their love for each other, and I don’t recall anything that was perverted. Are you privy to info that no one else knows about? > [@](#): > > Gay adopting is child molesting. And you say this based on what? Your opinion? Because you have demonstrated that your opinion isn’t worth a damn. If you have a cite, from a reputable publication, then I will cheerfully sign over to you my entire paycheck. > [@](#): > > He grows up with two dads, or two mammys. Bad influence for the child: sexual orientaiting etc. And think about when the child is bringing some friends home and precents them to his daddys. He will not be easily accepted by other children. Gays who wanna adopt must have a superego. (should people like that go free around ?) Now, if you want to discuss whether or not the children of homosexuals have a tougher time in adolescence, by all means let’s. If you want to make blanket statements like, “He will not be easily accepted by other children,” though, you had better make with the cites. And I don’t know if you’ve noticed or not, but gays and lesbians already “go free around”. > [@](#): > > Gays and lesbians goes step by step. Now they wanna be priest etc. So maybe they can change the theology. Because they know that the Bible condemns it. Yeah, I know what you mean. I, personally, have never understood those who want to be a part of a church, knowing that said church condemns them. But waddaya gonna do? Stop them? You gotta find them, first. Waste Flick Lives! ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/73 "2000-02-29T21:55:00Z")
Ok, seeing as Orion is apparently new to English, I thought I’d help him out by usinng the Altavista Babelfish translator from English to Spanish to English. I think you’ll all agree it’s sounds vastly more coherent and sensible now: ORION: > [@](#): > > The adolescences that are growing for above disturban by all these abnormalitys flowting throughout. People have moral limits of less/no to stick to the homosexuals are doing the union santa a revolting business. Of imitation the normal union having certain class of cermony pervertida of them must have. Glad adopting is to bother of the boy. It grows for above with two papas, or two mammys. Bad influence for the boy: sexual etc orientaiting. And it around thinks when the boy is bringing to some friends the home and precents they to his daddys. To other children it will not validate easily. Gays that wanna adopts must have an superego (it must populate as that goes freely around) Gays and the lesbians goes gradually. Now he wanna is the priest etc. So perhaps he can change the theology. Because they know that to the bible the sentence. And this one is they is perhaps will sweep last. If they can crush the church, they can crush which it is normal and most of the rules in a society. ---
**Author:** ![Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@Nu\_Vo\_Da\_Da](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nu_Vo_Da_Da)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/74 "2000-02-29T22:06:00Z")
OK I’m going to try to interpret and argue here… “consequenses for society: Teens which are growing up becomes disturbed by all these abnormalities flowting everywhere.” “Teenagers will be disturbed by gay people” uh-huh. I don’t think I’m going to dignify this with a response except to point out that this isn’t a consequence for society. " People have less/no moral limits to stick to." “If gay people have rights, then people’s morals will be comprised by that, and society will become more immoral blah blah blah” Yes, because obviously you can’t be moral if someone else is being immoral. Especially if it’s a method of being immoral that doesn’t affect you in the slightest. “Homosexuals are making the holy marriage a filthy business. They mock normal marriage by having some sort of perverted cermony of they’re own.” “Gay people can’t get married, that threatens regular marriage by, er, being like it.” Yeah, right. I think we already addressed this point in the pit. Where it belongs. “Gay adopting is child molesting. He grows up with two dads, or two mammys. Bad influence for the child: sexual orientaiting etc. And think about when the child is bringing some friends home and precents them to his daddys. He will not be easily accepted by other children.” “I don’t know what child molestation is. I also don’t know enough to look up the relevant information(children raised by gay parents are no more likely to be gay than children raised by heterosexual parents). Also people like me will dislike them because they’re parents aren’t straight.” They’re better off not having friends like you. “Gays who wanna adopt must have a superego. (should people like that go free around ?)” “I don’t know what a superego is” Er, everyone has a superego(moron). And no, they definitly should not. Everyone should go to prison. “Gays and lesbians goes step by step.” “Gay people don’t use pogo-sticks” ok, if you say so. "Now they wanna be priest etc. So maybe they can change the theology. Because they know that the Bible condemns it. " I don’t really need to translate this part. Yeah, cause there never were gay people in the priesthood previously. And it’s part of the “gay plot” to destroy theology. “And this is maybe they’re last barriere. If they can crush the church, they can crush what’s normal and most rules in a society.” “I’m going to move to Montana and live in a small shack with lots of weapons.” I hear that the UN is involved as well. But you can help to prevent this take over by wearing a hat made of tin foil. (it blocks the mind control rays) OK people, I think enough time has been spent debating this moron. Let’s all just move on to something else. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/75 "2000-02-29T22:09:00Z")
> [@](#): > > homosexuals are doing the union santa I’d just like to point out that “Union Santa” would be a great name for a band. Dr. J * * * “Seriously, baby, I can prescribe anything I want!” -Dr. Nick Riviera ---
**Author:** ![Flinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Flinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flinx)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/76 "2000-02-29T22:27:00Z")
ORION wrote: > [@](#): > > Gays who wanna adopt must have a superego. (should people like that go free around ?) Please never run for office. ---
**Author:** ![Dirt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Dirt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dirt)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/77 "2000-02-29T22:36:00Z")
**Nu Vo** If it means we get more responses like yours (and **Gaudere’s** ), then by all means, suffer the little idiots to come unto the board. (If not onto the board. ahem.) _Viva glad adopting Long live pogo sticks._ ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/78 "2000-02-29T23:02:00Z")
> [@](#): > > People have less/no moral limits to stick to. I could debate the rest of Orion’s intelligent and well tought out points here, but let’s just stick with this one. Whoever said that homosexuality causes a lowering of morality? Is homosexuality a “gateway” crime that leads to pedophelia, drugs, and murder? Unfortunately, I’m sure a lot of people think so. There are a lot of people that think “if you dare step outside of my rigid moral framework, then you are completely devoid of any morals whatsoever.” This is simplistic all-or-nothing thinking, and has little bearing on the real world. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/79 "2000-02-29T23:17:00Z")
I just want to know if our new “buddy” picked his oh-so-very-long UserName just to annoy us or if he/she/it just didn’t know any better. I don’t think you’re 26. I think you simply doubled your real age. Or you tried to triple it and got it wrong. That, or you’re just a troll. Have you posted on any other thread here? I’m not going to try a search as long as the Board is so slow to respond. * * * \>\ \_ **L\_\_\_L** ---
**Author:** ![siva](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7c8e57/32.png) [@siva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/siva)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687/80 "2000-03-01T00:39:00Z")
## tdn said: "quote: ## Originally posted by siva: you send people that committed a homosexual act to prison, where I have heard homosexual activity is common Not quite. In this case, you are comparing homosexuality to rape. This is a second cousin to saying that women who are raped are not only asking for it, but enjoy it. To imply that prison is a homosexual’s paradise is naive, at best. Siva responds: I did not mean my comment to come off that way. I understand that alot of homosexuality is not consentual in prisons. I do know the difference between having consentual sex with a person, and raping a person. I don’t ever recall putting the two together in my comment, and wasn’t saying prison is a homosexuals paradise. I didn’t have time to write it in detail and cover every angle of my comment. But, now that I’m at work I have some time!!! -------------------------------------------\> Well now I didn’t get to read the entire thread, so I’m not too sure if someone has mentioned this, but it seems odd to me that you send people that COMMITTED a homosexual act(not a rape victim) to prison, where I have heard homosexual activity is common, although it’s not necessarily consentual. The crime I think is when you punish a person or “couple” by taking aware their rights, like I believe they still do in Colorado. If you live in Colorado and are gay you basically don’t have any rights(in the eyes of the judicial system) and I think I can go as far as saying they won’t recognize your human rights. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-a-crime/17687.md?page=5)