# Homosexuality and Alexander the Great
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 20, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838 "2004-11-20T16:43:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/1 "2004-11-20T16:43:41Z")
So, apprently, Oliver Stone’s new film [Alexander](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/20/movies/MoviesFeatures/20alex.html) is going to take the historical accurate route and depict the eponymous hero as most definitely gay.
I myself am fine with this. In fact, trying to cover or hide the fact would be seriously lame, IMHO.
Should we be getting ready for the standard, over-the-top moral outrage? Is this film going to be another [Last Temptation of Christ](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095497/) (Martin Scorcese)?
Lastly, truly how strong is the evidence that Alexander the Great was in fact gay?
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/2 "2004-11-20T16:45:14Z")
> [@Knorf](#):
>
> Lastly, truly how strong is the evidence that Alexander the Great was in fact gay?
He had a boyfriend and didn’t ever have sex with his wife. I’d call that fairly compelling.
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### Author:  [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/3 "2004-11-20T16:52:52Z")
> [@evil death](#):
>
> He had a boyfriend and didn’t ever have sex with his wife. I’d call that fairly compelling.
Assuming this is a well-established fact via reliable historical record, then yes, I would say so.
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### Author:  [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/4 "2004-11-20T17:01:09Z")
> [@Knorf](#):
>
> Should we be getting ready for the standard, over-the-top moral outrage? Is this film going to be another [Last Temptation of Christ](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095497/) (Martin Scorcese)
Well, there are some Greeks who [want to sue Oliver Stone](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=FF2W2FDL2XLQUCRBAELCFEY?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=6871038) without ever seeing the movie.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/5 "2004-11-20T17:06:04Z")
One thing worth noting- ancient Greek attitudes toward homosexuality had VERY little in common with modern, liberal attitudes toward homosexuality. To ancient Greeks (and to the Spartans in particular), homosexuality often reflected a rejection of all things feminine, and an extremely macho, warrior ethic.
Many of the Spartans at Thermopylae died holding their lovers’ hands- but many of those same men would have gagged at seeing Harvey Fierstein or Boy George.
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### Author:  [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/6 "2004-11-20T17:23:31Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> One thing worth noting- ancient Greek attitudes toward homosexuality had VERY little in common with modern, liberal attitudes toward homosexuality. To ancient Greeks (and to the Spartans in particular), homosexuality often reflected a rejection of all things feminine, and an extremely macho, warrior ethic.
>
> Many of the Spartans at Thermopylae died holding their lovers’ hands- but many of those same men would have gagged at seeing Harvey Fierstein or Boy George.
Why didn’t you just say they were leather queens?
Spartan MCs in the house, woof, woof!
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/7 "2004-11-20T17:28:02Z")
I was always more curious about Alexander’s apparent need for conquest. No matter what he did, it was never enough. It led to his seath, destroyed his once mighty army, and drove him to the ends of the earth. My question is **why**??
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/8 "2004-11-20T17:52:18Z")
I’d echo **astorian** , but in addition point out that if you were trying to truly pin Alexander with a modern label it would be **bi**.
Quite aside from his wives, Alexander also had an affair with the widow ( an older woman ) of his very able adversary Memnon of Rhodes. There was no need politically for him to have done so, unlike his marriages and the union did result in a child - his illegitimate son Heracles.
Alexander seemed pretty comfortable on both sides of the aisle.
- Tamerlane
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/9 "2004-11-20T18:01:52Z")
> [@SteveG1](#):
>
> I was always more curious about Alexander’s apparent need for conquest. No matter what he did, it was never enough. It led to his seath, destroyed his once mighty army, and drove him to the ends of the earth. My question is **why**??
He was a megalomaniac. In the very real pathological sense of the word. He was treacherous, vicious, entertained notions of self-divinity ( a very non-Macedonian trait ) and was driven to prove himself. A very sick and dangerous ( if utterly brilliant ) individual.
What I am curious about with this film is whether Oliver Stone will go with his usual conspiracy take on history :). Because there is one and a quite plausible one at that - that Alexander’s officers poisoned him. His symptoms are perfectly consistent with slow strychnine poisoning, a substance and method the ancient Greeks knew very well and strychnine is easily concealed in wine, which Alexander was drinking by the truckload towards the end.
- Tamerlane
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/10 "2004-11-20T18:09:11Z")
> [@Evil Death](#):
>
> He had a boyfriend and didn’t ever have sex with his wife. I’d call that fairly compelling.
Oh and just to correct this - he definitely had sex with at least one wife, which produced his legitimate heir Alexander IV, but probably also the second about whom tradition records that she was pregnant when she was murdered. So he must have had sex at least twice with his wives ;). But likely rather more than that - it was at the very least what was expected of him to get a heir.
Which doesn’t prove anything about his sexual perferences, since they were political necessities. For that his mistress Barsine, mentioned above, is the more reliable footnote to hold up against his well-attested relationship with Hephaistion.
- Tamerlane
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/11 "2004-11-20T20:35:51Z")
Wasn’t Alexander’s boyfriend a eunuch?
Marc
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/12 "2004-11-20T21:03:57Z")
In a _NY Times_ article on this today, _Oliver Stone_ said, “ **I don’t want to corrupt history**.”
And that’s when I shot myself.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/13 "2004-11-20T21:16:28Z")
> [@MGibson](#):
>
> Wasn’t Alexander’s boyfriend a eunuch?
You’re thinking of Bagoas, a young Persian eunuch who became a favorite of Alexander, as he had been of his opponent Darius III.
His _other_ boyfriend and the more famous one is his lifelong friend and later senior officer, Hephaestion, who was definitely not a eunuch. Oddly enough there doesn’t appear to have been much friction ( or the sources didn’t remark on any, anyway ) between Bagoas and Hephaestion - probably because they were only indirectly rivals. Craterus and Hephaestion on the other hand as the two most senior commanders towards the end ( and thus the closest to Alexander ), couldn’t stand each other and quarreled constantly.
- Tamerlane
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### Author:  [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/14 "2004-11-20T23:30:20Z")
Where’s a good online biography of him? I keep meaning to get some books from the library about him, but, well, I’m lazy.
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### Author:  [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/15 "2004-11-20T23:40:02Z")
> **[Alexander the Great](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_great)**
>
> Alexander III of Macedon (Greek: Ἀλέξανδρος, Aléxandros; 20/21 July 356 BC – 10/11 June 323 BC), commonly known as Alexander the Great, was a king of the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedon.\[a\] A member of the Argead dynasty, he was born in Pella—a city in Ancient Greece—in 356 BC. He succeeded his father King Philip II to the throne at the age of 20, and spent most of his ruling years conducting a lengthy military campaign throughout Western Asia and Northeastern Africa. By the age of thirty, h...
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### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [November 20, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/16 "2004-11-20T23:57:46Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> One thing worth noting- ancient Greek attitudes toward homosexuality had VERY little in common with modern, liberal attitudes toward homosexuality. To ancient Greeks (and to the Spartans in particular), homosexuality often reflected a rejection of all things feminine, and an extremely macho, warrior ethic.
>
> Many of the Spartans at Thermopylae died holding their lovers’ hands- but many of those same men would have gagged at seeing Harvey Fierstein or Boy George.
Yeah, I am not sure what this groups name was, but they fought side by side with their lovers, lived with htem and fought with them. It was believed that fought harder because of it.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/17 "2004-11-21T01:59:57Z")
> [@Agrippina](#):
>
> Well, there are some Greeks who [want to sue Oliver Stone](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=FF2W2FDL2XLQUCRBAELCFEY?type=entertainmentNews&storyID=6871038) without ever seeing the movie.
Idiots. There are no “official documents” of Alexander’s reign.
And besides, he wasn’t Greek–he was Macedonian (which really was different, at least back then).
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/18 "2004-11-21T02:09:26Z")
> [@Eve](#):
>
> And that’s when I shot myself.
Did your head go back and to the left?
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### Author:  [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/19 "2004-11-21T02:55:24Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#):
>
> Yeah, I am not sure what this groups name was, but they fought side by side with their lovers, lived with htem and fought with them. It was believed that fought harder because of it.
Sacred Band of Thebes. Philip, Alexander’s father, fought and defeated them on the field. Legend says they were slain after having fought to the last man without giving an inch. Philip was apparently very impressed with this.
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### Author:  [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/20 "2004-11-21T03:06:03Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#):
>
> And besides, he wasn’t Greek–he was Macedonian (which really was different, at least back then).
Careful what you say, you might really piss someone off. The modern countries of Greece and Macedonia are constantly fighting over who gets to claim Alex as a native son. For example, Greece objects to the flag of Macedonia, which incoporates aspects of Alexanders flag (or standard or whatever the hell it was back then).
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