# Homosexuality and Alexander the Great
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [November 20, 2004, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838 "2004-11-20T16:43:41Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/21 "2004-11-21T05:19:14Z")
Well, the “modern nation of Macedonia” is neither Greek nor Macedonian–its Yugoslavian. Tito co-opted the name.
Alexander conquered the Greeks and they’ve been trying to take credit for him ever since.
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### Author:  [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/22 "2004-11-21T05:32:49Z")
> [@Otto](#):
>
> Did your head go back and to the left?
This is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. 😃
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/23 "2004-11-21T05:46:39Z")
I read somewhere that Alexander’s male lover was killed in a battle over some Middle Eastern hellhole and Alexander expressed his grief by having every last man, woman and child in the place killed, then razed it to the ground.
Now, that’s carrying the torch!
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/24 "2004-11-21T06:24:10Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#):
>
> I read somewhere that Alexander’s male lover was killed in a battle over some Middle Eastern hellhole and Alexander expressed his grief by having every last man, woman and child in the place killed, then razed it to the ground.
Incorrect.
Hephaestion died from a fever, in 324 BC. It was in the vicinity of current-day Iran. Alexander did order the tails cut on all the horses & mules in the army (a greek sign of mourning). And he did have Hephaestion’s physician killed (crucified, actually).
In his next battle, with the Cossaeans, he put the entire nation to the sword. (Unusual for him, who usually treated opponents who surrendered pretty well. (Maybe that helps explain his astonishing success in battle.)) Some have said this was because he was still grieving. It’s possible. But the Cossaeans had nothing to do with Hephaestion getting sick or dying.
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### Author:  [@don\_Jaime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_Jaime)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/25 "2004-11-21T09:42:45Z")
Color me amazed that the Perseus Project at Tufts University doesn’t have Arrian or Plutarch’s bio online. Any library will have them, though.
The evidence in short: Alexander had an unusually close relationship with Hephaestion, but nowhere in the surviving texts is it described as an erotic one, at least in so many words. The big evidence is that they danced nude around the alleged tomb of Achilles and Patroclus near Troy to honor them. Achilles and Patroclus were widely regarded as lovers by the ancients.
Hephaistion was the only one allowed to read Alexander’s correspondence, and when the other generals complained, Alexander sealed his lips by having him kiss the royal seal ring. The captured dowager queen of Persia mistook Hephaistion for Alexander when they visited her camp; Alexander reassured her that “he is Alexander, too.”
Hephaistion’s death sent Alexander mad. The next war after that saw the extermination of the Cossaeans. He also sent to the oracle of Zeus-Amun to have Hephaistion declared a god, but all he got was that the dead man was a hero.
The eunuch Bagoas has been mentioned. We really don’t know a whole lot about him, beyond that Alexander had him for a lover, and the Macedonian troops once insisted on Alexander giving him a kiss.
There were the marriages, as well as the affair with Memnon’s widow, so he wasn’t completely adverse to women. Sex in general did remind him of his own mortality, as did sleep. He apparently slept only a few hours per night and usually abstained from intercourse.
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/26 "2004-11-21T10:47:21Z")
> [@Priam](#):
>
> Sacred Band of Thebes. Philip, Alexander’s father, fought and defeated them on the field. Legend says they were slain after having fought to the last man without giving an inch. Philip was apparently very impressed with this.
Though he seemed as concerned that they were up each other as with their great courage. I believe his precise comment was:
> [@Philip II of Macedon](#):
>
> Woe to those who think evil of such men.
However, the Sacred Band aren’t the gays **Gangster Octopus** is looking for. The group of 300 men who were almost wiped out at Thermopylae were the bodyguard of Leonidas, King of Sparta. (I say “almost” because it’s reputed that two men were sent back to Sparta with messages and weren’t there at the end - everyone in the battle died.)
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/27 "2004-11-21T12:07:29Z")
> [@Evil Death](#):
>
> However, the Sacred Band aren’t the gays **Gangster Octopus** is looking for.
You can go about your business.
Move along.
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### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/28 "2004-11-21T17:55:06Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#):
>
> You can go about your business.
>
> Move along.
D’oh!
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2004, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/29 "2004-11-21T22:28:15Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#):
>
> Incorrect.
>
> Hephaestion died from a fever, in 324 BC. It was in the vicinity of current-day Iran. Alexander did order the tails cut on all the horses & mules in the army (a greek sign of mourning). And he did have Hephaestion’s physician killed (crucified, actually).
>
> In his next battle, with the Cossaeans, he put the entire nation to the sword. (Unusual for him, who usually treated opponents who surrendered pretty well. (Maybe that helps explain his astonishing success in battle.)) Some have said this was because he was still grieving. It’s possible. But the Cossaeans had nothing to do with Hephaestion getting sick or dying.
Picky, picky, picky. The important point, I think we can all agree, is that I go the CONTINENT it occirred on right.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/30 "2004-11-22T01:02:29Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#):
>
> Oh and just to correct this - he definitely had sex with at least one wife, which produced his legitimate heir Alexander IV, but probably also the second about whom tradition records that she was pregnant when she was murdered. So he must have had sex at least twice with his wives ;). But likely rather more than that - it was at the very least what was expected of him to get a heir.
It is also recorded that Roxanne (mother of Alex IV) gave birth to a stillborn son during the Indian campaign and had at least two miscarriages, so apparently they had a fairly normal sexual relationship (or at least she was getting it from somebody).
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### Author:  [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2004, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/31 "2004-11-22T04:11:53Z")
My friend the amatuer ancient historian thinks Alexander wasn’t really all that great. He is anxious to see the film even though he can’t stand Oliver Stone just so he can complain about it and maybe write a letter to the paper explaining the errors the movie (will) contain.
His take of Alexander “the Great”:
Mom was crazy, killed Phillip as he was about to embark on a well-planned war campaign. Phillip’s death allows Alexander to take over. Alexander does so and uses his father’s plans to kick butt all over the world. Alexander pushed an pushed and pushed driving the army to the brink. Then his generals killed him and cut up the empire among themselves and ran it smoothly for some time. So Alexander wasn’t great, he used his father’s plans. His mother was crazy and killed his father just to get Alexander the throne. Alexander didn’t know when to stop the wars, and his generals “retired” him. And all the while Alexander anoyed a very active homosexual life style, but still had wives to producechildren.
(Any factual errors here are mine, I know none of this on my own and I’m pulling this from my memory.)
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2004, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/32 "2004-11-22T05:42:27Z")
> [@DaddyTimesTwo](#):
>
> My friend the amatuer ancient historian thinks Alexander wasn’t really all that great.
Well, his mother was a nasty bitch, no doubt, but there is no certainty she arranged Philip’s asassination, just as there isn’t anything beyond circumstantial speculation to suggest Alexander’s officers poisoned him. Both are plausible guesses, but unconfirmed.
As for Philip, he was undeniably brilliant in his own right and deserves a great deal of credit for his political and organizational abilities. He pretty much built Macedon into a first-class power and developed its superb army. But while Philip may have fantasized about eventually crushing the great Persian empire, I don’t think his actual concrete plans at that stage extended much beyond the Greek towns of western Asia Minor.
Nor do I think think there are very many historians that would deny Alexander’s tactical genius, strategic ability ( even if sometimes ad hoc ) and incredible personal charisma. I don’t think it is possible to say that Philip, had he lived, could automatically have been expected to achieve comparable success. Alexander’s accomplishments were rivalled at that point only by Cyrus the Great himself and in scope surpassed even him ( it is arguable who had a tougher row to hoe starting out, but is wasn’t until Cyrus’ son that Egypt went down ). Really only Chingiz Khan ever took more territory in a single reign as a warlord. As a conqueror ( who left a tremendous political and cultural legacy behind him ), if nothing else, he deserves his apellation.
- Tamerlane
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/33 "2004-11-22T07:26:15Z")
Oh Holy Zeus! Can you believe that a team of Greek lawyers is actually considering [suing](http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/va/20041119/110089509000.html) over allegations of Alex’s homosexuality?
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### Author:  [@Mathetria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathetria)
#### Post date: [June 10, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/34 "2012-06-10T21:23:42Z")
This addresses the entire question fairly completely and with citation of historical evidence:
[http://myweb.unomaha.edu/~mreames/Hephaistion/lover.html](http://myweb.unomaha.edu/~mreames/Hephaistion/lover.html)
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### Author:  [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/35 "2012-06-11T01:29:46Z")
> [@Mathetria](#):
>
> This addresses the entire question fairly completely and with citation of historical evidence:
Hardly ‘completely’ – Bagoas is never mentioned at all.
And the only cite I see it to the authors own more detailed article.
But it does seem to be a pretty good article about the issue.
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### Author:  [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)
#### Post date: [June 11, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-alexander-the-great/275838/36 "2012-06-11T01:56:24Z")
> [@astorian](#):
>
> ancient Greek attitudes toward homosexuality had VERY little in common with modern, liberal attitudes toward homosexuality.
Are zombie homosexual attiudes more like ancient Greek, or modern liberal ones. I ask merely for information.
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