# Homosexuality and evolution **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 14, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916 "2001-04-14T04:02:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/21 "2001-04-15T15:27:53Z")
What about moss? It’s an animal & has 13 sexes. Lucky. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/22 "2001-04-15T15:53:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*It is a lifestyle choice! \*\* Oh, goody. And it’s off to GD we go. Here is a question I always like to ask of those who claim that gayness is a lifestyle **choice** : I came into this world as a little boy. Some of my earliest memories have to do with with the crushes I had on the girls in my kindergarten class. Every time I went to the movies I would end up in love with the leading lady by the time the credits rolled. As I grew older I found myself drawn to girls and women in a different way. I loved the way the looked, the way they smelled, the way they sounded, and especially the way they felt. Well, big deal. I’m a guy. That’s the way it’s supposed to work. But what if I’d been born as a little girl? Would I have been able to _choose_ to feel differently towards girls and women? Would I have been able to _make_ myself be attracted to men? For me the answer is an unqualified “NO”. Had I been born as a little girl, I would today be a lesbian, no doubt. But maybe, just maybe, that’s not the case for you. So the question I have for you is this: Could you have _chosen_ to be attracted to either men or women? If you could _not_ make that choice, why do you think that gays can? If you _could_ make that choice, … well I’ll let you ponder the implications of that in your own way. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/23 "2001-04-15T15:54:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > \*\* > What about moss? It’s an animal & has 13 sexes. Lucky. \*\* Polysexual bryophytes? Not really. Moss(es) may have variations on male/female reproduction but this does not count as “13 sexes”. And mosses are not animals even though they have motile sperm. [http://www.sbs.auckland.ac.nz/biology\_web\_pages/nzplants/moss\_sexual\_reproduction.htm](http://www.sbs.auckland.ac.nz/biology_web_pages/nzplants/moss_sexual_reproduction.htm) [http://www.sbs.auckland.ac.nz/biology\_web\_pages/nzplants/moss\_lifecycle.htm](http://www.sbs.auckland.ac.nz/biology_web_pages/nzplants/moss_lifecycle.htm) "Moss Sexual Reproduction ~ a complete lifecycle ~ Unlike All Other Land Plants. Brief description of general moss lifecycle The “leafy” green moss plant is the gamete-producing plant (gametophyte), which bear male organs (antherdia) and female organs (archegonia) in which gametes are produced by mitosis. The flagellated male gametes (sperm) are released from the antheridia and swim through a film of moisture, such as rain or heavy dew. Responding to chemical attractants, they swim to archegonia, where they fertilise the eggs, producing a zygote. Each zygote then divides by mitosis, producing a diploid spore-producing plant (sporophyte). The sporophyte consists of a capsule, which is usually promptly raised on a stalk (seta). Meiosis occurs within special cells (sporocytes) inside the capsule, resulting in the formation of haploid (n) spores. The spores are released and then germinate, and develop into a mature, leafy, gamete-producing plant (gametophyte). etc. etc." ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/24 "2001-04-15T21:16:42Z")
A couple Straight Dope columns on this topic: [Are aphids born pregnant?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_223.html) [Can turkeys reproduce without benefit of sex?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_223.html) Chronos, I am very familiar with the New Mexico whiptail lizard that reproduces via parthenogenesis, but I never heard of this lesbian lizard action of which you speak… ---
**Author:** ![mojo\_filter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@mojo\_filter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mojo_filter)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/25 "2001-04-15T22:01:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, big deal. I’m a guy. That’s the way it’s supposed to work You are right, this is how it is supposed to work. Thanks for the backup. > [@](#): > > But what if I’d been born as a little girl? Would I have been able to choose to feel differently towards girls and women? Would I have been able to make myself be attracted to men? For me the answer is an unqualified “NO”. Had I been born as a little girl, I would today be a lesbian, no doubt. > > But maybe, just maybe, that’s not the case for you. So the question I have for you is this: Could you have chosen to be attracted to either men or women? If you could not make that choice, why do you think that gays can? If you could make that choice, … well I’ll let you ponder the implications of that in your own way. This is a flimsy argument on several levels, and actually does your cause a disservice. Your outlook on life is from a man’s point of view, you do not know that if you were born a female that you wouldn’t find men attractive. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/26 "2001-04-15T22:10:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Synergist \* > \*\*Also, your assumption that homosexuals don’t have children is simply not correct. Melissa Etheridge, for example, is a lesbian and a mother. \*\* Not biologically. Her former partner, Julie Cypher, is the biological mother, David Crosby is the biological father. I don’t know if ME officially adopted them or not; I think possibly she did. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2001, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/27 "2001-04-15T22:17:26Z")
The last I had read about the biological reasons behind homosexuality compared it to handedness. Some people are completely right-handed, some completely left-handed, with some somewhere in between. Both sexuality and handedness may or may not be genetically predetermined, but just develop as either the brain is grown _in utero_ or as the child is nurtured. And even a 100% homosexual may not realize his/her sexuality before they procreate. So if there is a gene that predisposes to homosexuality, it could easily be passed on. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/28 "2001-04-16T01:04:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mojo filter \* > **[rant] Cripes! I am so tired of the homosexual community trying to convince the world that they are afflicted with some type of mutant gene. A mutant gene that compels them to live their lives in such a deviant manner. This is entirely BS. And even if it were true, how come noone is demanding a cure? I don’t think someone should be allowed to bitch and gripe about their so called affliction without making an effort to rid themselves of the affliction.** _scratching head…_ I suppose you _could_ mean deviant in a statistical sense (as in, not typical, not the common situation) but somehow I doubt that was your intended meaning. Imagine the paragraph running _I am so tired of the lefthanded community traying to convince the world they are afflicted with some type of mutant gene. A mutant gene that compels them to manipulate objects in such a deviant manner… And even if it were true, how come no one is demanding a cure for lefthandedness?_ I’ve known a lot of homosexuals and almost none of them view their sexuality as an “affliction” - it’s the intolerance of those around them that they view as the “affliction”. They don’t want to be “cured” of their homosexuality, they want to be left alone to live in peace. > [@](#): > > \*\* You want to live like this? Go ahead, you have the right. (Although, anal sex is still illegal in some states.\*\* Ya know, even a hetero like myself knows that there is more to homosexuality than just anal sex. A man can be gay without ever partcipating in anal sex. A woman can be a lesiban without ever muff-diving. To distill sexuality down to just one act is… I don’t know, it just sounds ignorant to me. Like saying hetero sex is strictly missionary-man-on-top. It’s such a _limited_ viewpoint. > [@](#): > > \*\*But, to elevate your lifestyle choice to a level higher than mine by saying that it is somehow genetic and therefore protected, doesn’t sem fair.[/rant} \*\* Well, we _don’t know_ why some folks are homosexual. We really don’t. Lots of theories, but no hard proof. What if it IS genetic, at least in part? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/29 "2001-04-16T05:11:09Z")
[Moderator watch ON] Can we please cut the discussion of “it’s a lifestyle choice”? No, wait, let me rephrase that: I am here and now cutting off the discussion of “it’s a lifestyle choice”. Any further posts in this thread along that line will be deleted. This is not to be construed as as censorship; if you have strong views on the subject (heck even if you have ambivalent or weak views) and would like to share those views with the rest of this community, you are welcome to do so in Great Debates. [Moderator watch OFF] As to the whiptail lizards, **Jill** , I read the story once in an old _Scientific American_. The downside to having once had access to the full archives of the magazine, is that now, when I remember such a story, I have a hard time narrowing down what decade it was… I think that this was sometime in the '70s. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2001, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916/30 "2001-04-16T19:13:31Z")
Chronos - At your request I have taken the “lifestyle choice” issue to Great Debates. Mojo, please visit me there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-and-evolution/61916.md?page=1)