# Homosexuality, For or Against? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2001, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059 "2001-05-02T08:05:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/81 "2001-05-03T20:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > You seem to be saying that Druid oil can be found nearly anywhere you look. I’m saying nothing of the kind. I haven’t even mentioned Druid oil. That was either Olentzero or AynRand Lover … I get confused between the two. > [@](#): > > What if your neighbor is a woman and she decides to have breast enlargement surgery such that her breasts hang over onto your property while she lounges quietly in her own back yard? In your scenario, are you positing that her breast are sentient, or not? > [@](#): > > That’s not the reason 1+1=2. If I count two apples, that’s why? > > > [@](#): > > > > Huh? > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > It was a typo. I meant to say that I counted to apples, that’s why. Bullshit. Just because you’re standing inside a ring of demon powder doesn’t mean that you’ve made a perfect circle. Maybe it’s a hexagon. You think 1+1=2 because you believed your kindergarten teacher. And you still do. > [@](#): > > But I would like to meet you sometime and show you how I can turn my eyelids inside out. I’d rather spend the night in a hotel room with Jesse Helms. > [@](#): > > I’d say that means Hitler had a lot of balls. Hitler has only got one ball. Rommel has two but very small. Himmler has something similar. But Goebels has no balls at all. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/82 "2001-05-03T21:42:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tourbot \* > \*\*Although it’s not my business, I must admit that I do react emtionally to the artistic achievements by gay men. Gay men have made the world incredibly richer. Many of my gay friends and relatives have also tended to be artistic. > \*\* Are you as appreciative of all the colored folk for entertaining you with all that fine dancin’?:rolleyes: For what it’s worth, most of the artistic people I’ve known were straight. I can think of gays who were damn good accountants, doctors, teachers, lawyers, and scientists, though. \*\* [/QUOTE] I meant the statement in all sincerity. My optician, who was also a personal friend, was an aspiring concert pianist. My cousin, a university administrator, had a most beautifully decorated home. Both of them are now dead of AIDS. I’m a big fan of musical comedies. Cole Porter’s lyrics and music have made the world an infinitely better place. Numerous gays have been active in the performing arts. The AIDS epdimic has caused a staggering loss to the artistic world. Tourbot’s logic is fishy. To see whether gays are more artistic on average, one needs to look at the fraction of gays who are artistic vs. the fraction of straights who are artistic. Tourbot instead considered the fraction of artists who are straight. Naturally, most artists are straight because most people are straight. Tourbot’s rude reply to me may have been due to a belief that it’s politically incorrect to note differences among groups’ cultures. The automatic response to a non-PC statement seems to be an accusation of racism. **However, I absolutely refuse to discuss “PC” any more!** ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/83 "2001-05-03T22:36:53Z")
Man, judging by the responses on this board, I don’t know if I want to say this, but . . . I’m against homosexuality. Now, before you start calling me a homophobe, I’d like to clarify. To have a phobia, you need to be afraid of something (hydrophobia is the fear of water, xenophobia is the fear of foreigners, etc.) I feel no fear towards homosexuals, therefore I am not a homophobe. I have the same position toward emphysema. Of course, I’m against it, but I don’t fear it. (I don’t smoke.) Why am I against homosexuality? I believe it a sin against God, just as murder, theft, lying, fraud, and adultery are. Yes, it’s a religious reason, but my religion (Christian) also dictates that murder is wrong. No natural law runs counter to murder, but we all can agree that it is wrong. I see them as one and the same. (I don’t want anyone replying that religious laws are moot. I would ask you why you don’t go out and murder people.) Just my $0.02 I seem to be in the minority. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/84 "2001-05-03T22:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Soup\_du\_jour** _ > > To have a phobia, you need to be afraid of something… Jesus H. Tap-dancin’… Is no one familiar with frelling [Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com) around here? > [@](#): > > Main Entry: **ho·mo·pho·bia** > Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-& > Function: noun > Date: 1969 > : irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals Since there is no “-ism” for homosexuality like racism or sexism (and “heterosexism” has another meaning entirely), “homophobia” is the accepted term. Yes, it is etymologically inaccurate, but that’s one of the wonders of the English language - it’s flexible. For the record, I have lost track of how many times the word has been discussed, and a simple click on that nifty “search” button in the upper right hand corner of this page would do wonders for all involved, lest my head explode. > [@](#): > > I seem to be in the minority. Thankfully, yes. But the OP was asking for opinions, so thanks for giving yours. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/85 "2001-05-03T23:16:40Z")
Umm, speaking as a religious person, there is a huge difference between murder and homosexuality, to wit: hurting other people. Let me abuse the English language here to make a point: Let’s misuse the word MORAL: From a MORAL standpoint, all sin is equal. Murder is as bad as lying. If gay sex is a sin, it is as sinful as murder. However, so is lying, stealing, anything wrong that you do. Everybody sins, so from this standpoint, gays are no worse or better than murderers or Soup. Let’s misuse the word ETHICAL: From an ETHICAL standpoint, some sins are worse than others, based on the harm they do. Murder is worse than lying. Homosexuality (assuming it is a sin) is not as bad as lying on this scale. Obviously, this is moot if Soup has never lied. Otherwise, friend, get the beam from your eye before complaining about the speck in your brother’s. This doesn’t even begin to address if gay sex is a sin or not. Soup\_du\_jour, I cordially invite you to start a thread here in GD about it. Others are tired of this, I’m sure, but I’d like to see your scriptural support for the idea that gay sex is a sin in the eyes of G-d. If Soup does do this, I would like to ask all you good folks not to dogpile with cries of ‘homophobe.’ –John ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/86 "2001-05-03T23:28:03Z")
Is this a vote? I vote for. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2001, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/87 "2001-05-03T23:29:43Z")
I am against the rain, IT CAN GO TO HELL AND DIE. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/88 "2001-05-04T01:01:59Z")
Personally, I think we should start considering homosexuality a disease again. That way I could go see Depeche Mode and the Pet Shop Boys and charge the tickets to my medicare card. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/89 "2001-05-04T01:09:14Z")
…although Soup is correct that hydrophobia also means the fear of water. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/90 "2001-05-04T01:28:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Personally, I think we should start considering homosexuality a disease again. That way I could go see Depeche Mode and the Pet Shop Boys and charge the tickets to my medicare card. 😃 \*\* I thought the purpose of medicare was to get cured of the disease. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/91 "2001-05-04T01:29:01Z")
\*\*Soup\_du\_jour wrote: Why am I against homosexuality? I believe it a sin against God, just as murder, theft, lying, fraud, and adultery are.\*\* Depending on your interpretation of the the various sacred texts of Christianity, it depends. Try talking with a few of the other Christians around here, like **Polycarp** or **Libertarian** or **Triskademus** , etc. and you’ll find that the opinion on homosexuality in Christianity is hardly a settled matter. A question for you; even if homosexuality is a sin within your faith, does that mean society can deny equal rights to the GLBT community? ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/92 "2001-05-04T01:45:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > A question for you; even if homosexuality is a sin within your faith, does that mean society can deny equal rights to the GLBT community? \*\* The GLBT has the same rights as everyone else does. The GLBT community doesn’t need special rights. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/93 "2001-05-04T02:04:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > > A question for you; even if homosexuality is a sin within your faith, does that mean society can deny equal rights to the GLBT community? \*\* > > The GLBT has the same rights as everyone else does. > The GLBT community doesn’t need special rights. > \*\* Equal rights means we could have same sex marriages. Equal rights means we could not be fired for our sexuality. Equal rights means we would not be attacked physically for our sexuality. Don’t tell me that we have equal rights. And don’t equate them with special rights. That is crap. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/94 "2001-05-04T02:33:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > > \*\* > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > > > A question for you; even if homosexuality is a sin within your faith, does that mean society can deny equal rights to the GLBT community? \*\* > > > > The GLBT has the same rights as everyone else does. > > The GLBT community doesn’t need special rights. > > \*\* > > Equal rights means we could have same sex marriages. Equal rights means we could not be fired for our sexuality. Equal rights means we would not be attacked physically for our sexuality. > > Don’t tell me that we have equal rights. And don’t equate them with special rights. That is crap. \*\* Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. You have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as anyone else does. To make it illegal to fire someone who is gay because of their sexuality ,would mean if a company was going to lay off people they could lay off everyone but gays or be sued for milions . What if a guy who molested women claimed he shouldn’t be fired for his sexuality ? As far as being attacked it is already aginst the law to attack anyone . the same laws of assault, battery and murder apply to all. Why didn’t the GLBT community speak up when Herb Baumeister killed maybe up to 60 gay men in Indianapolis and along I-70? They spoke up when Matthew Shepard was murdered.(By the way I am pro death for anyone who murders). Why didn’t they say we need special laws protecting gay men from other gay men like Baumeister ,Jeffery Dalmer, John Wayne Gacy? By far more gay men are murdered by gays then straights. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/95 "2001-05-04T02:34:58Z")
Very funny, **Asmodean**. Yea, I would watch a lesbian orgy too. But I hae a question for the ladies: would you watch men, well you know, get sensitive? ---
**Author:** ![urban1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d07c76/32.png) [@urban1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/96 "2001-05-04T02:51:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Obviously another dark facet of The **Gay Agenda** has been revealed! Ok. I’ve been gay for 60-some years and I’ve always heard about this Gay Agenda. Could someone please send me a copy? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yue\_Han](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/eada6e/32.png) [@Yue\_Han](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yue_Han)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/97 "2001-05-04T03:08:47Z")
> [@](#): > > To make it illegal to fire someone who is gay because of their sexuality ,would mean > if a company was going to lay off people they could lay off everyone but gays or be sued for milions . You seem to have confused ‘to make it illegal to fire gays for their sexuality’ with ‘to make it illegal to fire gays.’ Here’s a test: “Why were you fired?” “My company needed the money they were paying me.” Not discrimination. “Why were you fired?” “I’m gay and my boss doesn’t like gays.” Discrimination. Gays should be protected from discrimination, not from being fired in general. –John ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/98 "2001-05-04T03:13:00Z")
**kmudd20001** : > [@](#): > > Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. You have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as anyone else does. “This country provides free education for white children. Black parents have the same right to have their white children educated as anyone else does.” Anything wrong with that statement? > [@](#): > > To make it illegal to fire someone who is gay because of their sexuality ,would mean if a company was going to lay off people they could lay off everyone but gays or be sued for milions . No. It means it would be illegal to fire a gay (or straight) person simply because of his sexuality, just like it’s already illegal to fire a black (or white) person simply because of his race. > [@](#): > > What if a guy who molested women claimed he shouldn’t be fired for his sexuality ? He isn’t being fired for his sexuality, he’s being fired for his actions in the workplace. No one gets to molest anyone, regardless of sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/99 "2001-05-04T03:18:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yue Han \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > To make it illegal to fire someone who is gay because of their sexuality ,would mean > > if a company was going to lay off people they could lay off everyone but gays or be sued for milions . > > You seem to have confused ‘to make it illegal to fire gays for their sexuality’ with ‘to make it illegal to fire gays.’ > > Here’s a test: > “Why were you fired?” > “My company needed the money they were paying me.” > Not discrimination. > “Why were you fired?” > “I’m gay and my boss doesn’t like gays.” > Discrimination. > > Gays should be protected from discrimination, not from being fired in general. > > –John \*\* How can a company prove they didn’t fire or not hire(the GLBT wants the law to force the hiring of gays too) because the employee was gay? How do you even know if the employee you have gotten a application from is gay? If for some reason this person is not hired, look for a law suit. Where I work we take applications and send them to our main store in another state. Most of the decsions on what applications are good enough to be called for an interview to maybe be hired is made by someone who has never even seen the person. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/100 "2001-05-04T03:34:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > “This country provides free education for white children. Black parents have the same right to have their white children educated as anyone else does.” > > Anything wrong with that statement? > > \*\* Being gay has nothing to do with race. Race is not a feeling .Or a desire. Or a behavour . Some people claim they are oriented to having sex with animals should they have special protection under the law? How many people are fired just because they are gay? Not many.I bet more fat people are fired because they are fat. Ugly people have a harder time getting jobs than good looking people. Should these people get special laws Everyone should be treated by the law and the government exactly the same. What is wrong with this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059.md?page=6)