# Homosexuality, For or Against? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2001, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059 "2001-05-02T08:05:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/161 "2001-05-05T01:34:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > > **The same goes for the Boy Scouts,they should not have anyone who may prose a danger to the boys as Scout Leaders.Check for yourself how many boys have been molested by scout leaders.** > > 97% of child molesters are straight men. Most men who have sex with young boys do not identify as gay. There is absolutely no foundation to the belief that gay men are more likely to molest children. If anything, homosexuality is a negative predictor of tendency to molest (do the math). > > Your comments suggest that you believe that homosexuals are dangerous to children. Could you clarify this? Do you, in fact, believe that homosexuals are dangerous to children? Why or why not? > > Also, I am still waiting for you to provide an example of a business which has established a “gay quota” for the purpose of minimizing legal exposure. > > Oh, and for the record, I have no problem with a male Girl Scout troop leader. We allow women to be Cub Scout den mothers, after all. > > And as to “gay scout club”: segregrated facilities are inherently inequal. \*\* I agree that most child molesters are straight men that is why I wouldn’t want them leading Girls Scouts either. As far the gay quotas I said it will lead to gay quotas. Plus I posted a link showing where a lot of the gay groups are using quotas themselves.They are discriming against white gay males. I believe any stranger straight or gay can be dangerous to children. That is why children’s clubs and groups like the scouts have to be carefull of everyone. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/162 "2001-05-05T01:39:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > \*\* > I believe any stranger straight or gay can be dangerous to children. That is why children’s clubs and groups like the scouts have to be carefull of everyone. \*\* Funny how the vast majority of child abuse and molestation is done by someone known to the victim. Also, are you saying that gay people are discriminating against other gay people because they are gay? It seems more like the hiring quotas are race based, which has nothing to do with orientation. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/163 "2001-05-05T01:52:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > **I agree that most child molesters are straight men that is why I wouldn’t want them leading Girls Scouts either.** Doesn’t it make sense to let gay men lead Girl Scouts, though? > [@](#): > > \*\* > As far the gay quotas I said it will lead to gay quotas. > \*\* So how do you respond to the fact that there have been laws prohibiting discrimination against gays in employment in force for over 20 years in some places without “gay quotas” arising anywhere that you are aware of? If your position was meritorious, one would think that “gay quotas” would have come to pass in some place that has been mandating antidiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. How do you explain this discrepancy. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Plus I posted a link showing where a lot of the gay groups are using quotas themselves.They are discriming against white gay males. > \*\* And they are doing so for what reason, exactly? I don’t think it’s to avoid lawsuits; rather, it’s because they have voluntarily elected to try to give more positions to such people. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/164 "2001-05-05T01:56:32Z")
Child molesters molest children - the gender of those children is, on the whole, irrelevant. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. Could you please get that through your skull before I lose my patience? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/165 "2001-05-05T01:57:26Z")
So, **kmudd** , you note that the BSA, even with its current anti-homosexual policy, is having trouble with molestation of its scouts by scoutmasters. However, as others have noted, the incidence of pedophilia among gay men is one-third that of the incidence of pedophilia among straight men. In other words, a given straight man is three times as likely to be a child molester as a given gay man. As **KellyM** pointed out, most men who molest boys self-identify as straight, not gay. Clearly, if the scoutmaster policy was based upon preventing child molestation, heterosexual males would be the **least** preferred group to lead scouts. Clearly, then, either the scoutmaster policy is not based upon preventing child molestation, or the BSA leaders have their heads in the sand. **KellyM** , btw, do you have a cite for either of those statistics? I’ve heard both of those statistics before, but I don’t have a good cite for them. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/166 "2001-05-05T02:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > \*\*Here are some links of boy scouts molested and raped by scout leaders. So, keeping the gays out of the Boy Scouts is the best way to keep this from happening? Were these men even gay? Certainly, if they were scout leaders, they weren’t openly gay. Pedophilia does not equate to homosexuality, regardless of the gender of the target. No one is saying that scouts aren’t molested, that’s just a strawman you have set up to disprove. The actual issue in contention is whether or not it is fair to discriminate against homosexuals in choosing scout leaders. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/167 "2001-05-05T02:02:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > > **I agree that most child molesters are straight men that is why I wouldn’t want them leading Girls Scouts either.** > > Doesn’t it make sense to let gay men lead Girl Scouts, though? > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > As far the gay quotas I said it will lead to gay quotas. > > \*\* > > So how do you respond to the fact that there have been laws prohibiting discrimination against gays in employment in force for over 20 years in some places without “gay quotas” arising anywhere that you are aware of? If your position was meritorious, one would think that “gay quotas” would have come to pass in some place that has been mandating antidiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. How do you explain this discrepancy. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > Plus I posted a link showing where a lot of the gay groups are using quotas themselves.They are discriming against white gay males. > > \*\* > > And they are doing so for what reason, exactly? I don’t think it’s to avoid lawsuits; rather, it’s because they have voluntarily elected to try to give more positions to such people. \*\* So you are for discriminating against gay white males if the company voluntarily tries to give these postions to others? ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/168 "2001-05-05T02:07:25Z")
Check out this link look toward the middle for gay quota. [http://www.mikeschiller.com/GayDem/HateCrimes.html](http://www.mikeschiller.com/GayDem/HateCrimes.html) ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/169 "2001-05-05T02:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Punoqllads \* > \*\*So, **kmudd** , you note that the BSA, even with its current anti-homosexual policy, is having trouble with molestation of its scouts by scoutmasters. However, as others have noted, the incidence of pedophilia among gay men is one-third that of the incidence of pedophilia among straight men. In other words, a given straight man is three times as likely to be a child molester as a given gay man. As **KellyM** pointed out, most men who molest boys self-identify as straight, not gay. > > Clearly, if the scoutmaster policy was based upon preventing child molestation, heterosexual males would be the **least** preferred group to lead scouts. Clearly, then, either the scoutmaster policy is not based upon preventing child molestation, or the BSA leaders have their heads in the sand. > > **KellyM** , btw, do you have a cite for either of those statistics? I’ve heard both of those statistics before, but I don’t have a good cite for them. \*\* If a male wants to have sex with males and has sex with he is gay or at least bi. Most straight men molest young girls not boys. All molesters should be thrown in jail with the key thrown away. Why doesn’t some gay group start their own Scout type troop? Then they can have the leaders they want. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/170 "2001-05-05T02:14:38Z")
Jesus Christ… Mods, he’s not even reading what we write, let alone direct answers to his questions. Can’t you poke him with a stick or something? Please? Esprix ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/171 "2001-05-05T02:41:55Z")
**kmudd20001** , I have answered several of your points, and yet you have left most of mine unanswered. I am not going to answer any more of your points until you respond meaningfully to some of mind. My time is too valuable to be spent chasing after some closeminded troll. **Punoqllads** , I’ll see if I can chase down a cite for those numbers, ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/172 "2001-05-05T02:45:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KellyM \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > > **I agree that most child molesters are straight men that is why I wouldn’t want them leading Girls Scouts either.** > > Doesn’t it make sense to let gay men lead Girl Scouts, though? > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > As far the gay quotas I said it will lead to gay quotas. > > \*\* > > So how do you respond to the fact that there have been laws prohibiting discrimination against gays in employment in force for over 20 years in some places without “gay quotas” arising anywhere that you are aware of? If your position was meritorious, one would think that “gay quotas” would have come to pass in some place that has been mandating antidiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. How do you explain this discrepancy. > > > [@](#): > > > > \*\* > > Plus I posted a link showing where a lot of the gay groups are using quotas themselves.They are discriming against white gay males. > > \*\* > > And they are doing so for what reason, exactly? I don’t think it’s to avoid lawsuits; rather, it’s because they have voluntarily elected to try to give more positions to such people. \*\* I will let the girl scouts decide who their leaders should be.Just like the boy scouts have the right to decide who should be their leaders. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/173 "2001-05-05T02:54:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*Child molesters molest children - the gender of those children is, on the whole, irrelevant. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. > > Could you please get that through your skull before I lose my patience? > > Esprix \*\* You mean child molesters don’t have a sexual preference. This is not true for most of them .Maybe for some but most do have a preference. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Creant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@Miss\_Creant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Creant)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/174 "2001-05-05T02:56:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Morrison’s Lament \* > \*\*I think the idea that someone can be for or against a naturally occurring phenomenon is so laughable no one is willing to waste their time on going after this one. > > I mean, are you for or against wild buffalo? Are you for or against the female menstrual cycle? Are you for or against blonde hair? > Homosexuality is simply a part of life and the universe, it’s pointless to debate it’s validity. The point is that it exists and a lot of people would do themselves a huge favour by simply accepting that fact. > > Not to mention how much easier it would make life for the millions of people facing persecution because of their sexuality in the world today. > > — G. Raven > \*\* I for one am against the female menstrual cycle. Why do I have to feel crappy one week every month? Other than that note, I could not possibly improve upon this post. I’m off to the Pit to see the OP get skewered. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/175 "2001-05-05T02:58:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andygirl \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by kmudd20001 \* > > \*\* > > I believe any stranger straight or gay can be dangerous to children. That is why children’s clubs and groups like the scouts have to be carefull of everyone. \*\* > > Funny how the vast majority of child abuse and molestation is done by someone known to the victim. > > Also, are you saying that gay people are discriminating against other gay people because they are gay? It seems more like the hiring quotas are race based, which has nothing to do with orientation. \*\* So race based discrimination is okay? ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/176 "2001-05-05T03:01:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you think men should be allowed to be Girl Scout Leaders? > They are not be cause of the men may try and have sex with the girls. Are you sure that’s the reason? I think your basic assumptions are wrong. Has it occurred to you that the reason why women are Girl Scout leaders and men are not is that one of the main purposes of the modern Girl Scouts is to teach girls that they can grow up to be strong, resourceful, capable, moral _women_? Does this mean that men can’t be good role models for girls? Of course not! That’s why men are allowed to volunteer for non-leadership positions in the Girl Scouts. But girls don’t only need to learn that men can be good, strong, intelligent, brave, etc… They can see plenty of male heroes in the movies and on tv! Sometimes girls need to see successful women in action, up close and personal. They don’t need to learn that men can climb ropes and build fires. They need to learn that _they_ can. Pretty simple, don’t you think? Women as Cub Scout den mothers? I don’t know the origins of that tradition. Maybe it comes from the old myth that only women are capable of nurturing young children. Maybe in KMudd20001’s twisted, sex-obsessed worldview the existence of female Den Mothers proves that really young boys are so delectable that even nominally heterosexual men can’t be trusted around them! Hey, KMudd! How’sa 'bout this idea: only Lesbians should be Boy Scout Leaders, and only Gay Men should be Girl Scout Leaders! That should cut the sexual molestation issue down just about as far as it can go, don’t you think? So much for molestation. The Boy Scouts themselves have stated (disingenuously or not) that their objection to gay Scoutmasters is based on their belief that gay Scoutmasters can’t be (or teach their troop members to be) “morally straight.” Putting aside the false equation of homosexuality with immorality, the problem is again one of “identification.” What if a scoutmaster were “manly,” brave, resourceful, etc, etc, etc. and gay? Even worse, what if he were “fey,” brave, resourceful, etc, etc, etc, and gay? What if straight boys learned how to be good men from a gay man, and took away the unspoken lesson that gays have a lot to offer and are worthy of respect? What if gay boys learned how to be good men from a gay man, and learned that they, too, are worthy of respect? Tragedy! (No, we are not talking about sex lessons here. And, no, I do not think that role modelling is strong enough to cause straight boys to spontaneously convert to gayness.) Worried about molestation? Why not ban Roman Catholic priests from becoming Scoutmasters? After all, some of them have been known to molest boys, too! (Just kidding. Really! Please note sarcasm!) Sorry I went off on a tangent. Sorry if this is a little disorganized. There is just so much wrong with KMudd’s assumptions, that it is hard to know which one to refute first. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/177 "2001-05-05T03:16:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tenar \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Do you think men should be allowed to be Girl Scout Leaders? > > They are not be cause of the men may try and have sex with the girls. > > Are you sure that’s the reason? I think your basic assumptions are wrong. > > Has it occurred to you that the reason why women are Girl Scout leaders and men are not is that one of the main purposes of the modern Girl Scouts is to teach girls that they can grow up to be strong, resourceful, capable, moral _women_? Does this mean that men can’t be good role models for girls? Of course not! That’s why men are allowed to volunteer for non-leadership positions in the Girl Scouts. But girls don’t only need to learn that men can be good, strong, intelligent, brave, etc… They can see plenty of male heroes in the movies and on tv! Sometimes girls need to see successful women in action, up close and personal. They don’t need to learn that men can climb ropes and build fires. They need to learn that _they_ can. Pretty simple, don’t you think? > > Women as Cub Scout den mothers? I don’t know the origins of that tradition. Maybe it comes from the old myth that only women are capable of nurturing young children. Maybe in KMudd20001’s twisted, sex-obsessed worldview the existence of female Den Mothers proves that really young boys are so delectable that even nominally heterosexual men can’t be trusted around them! > > Hey, KMudd! How’sa 'bout this idea: only Lesbians should be Boy Scout Leaders, and only Gay Men should be Girl Scout Leaders! That should cut the sexual molestation issue down just about as far as it can go, don’t you think? > > So much for molestation. The Boy Scouts themselves have stated (disingenuously or not) that their objection to gay Scoutmasters is based on their belief that gay Scoutmasters can’t be (or teach their troop members to be) “morally straight.” Putting aside the false equation of homosexuality with immorality, the problem is again one of “identification.” What if a scoutmaster were “manly,” brave, resourceful, etc, etc, etc. and gay? Even worse, what if he were “fey,” brave, resourceful, etc, etc, etc, and gay? What if straight boys learned how to be good men from a gay man, and took away the unspoken lesson that gays have a lot to offer and are worthy of respect? What if gay boys learned how to be good men from a gay man, and learned that they, too, are worthy of respect? Tragedy! (No, we are not talking about sex lessons here. And, no, I do not think that role modelling is strong enough to cause straight boys to spontaneously convert to gayness.) > > Worried about molestation? Why not ban Roman Catholic priests from becoming Scoutmasters? After all, some of them have been known to molest boys, too! (Just kidding. Really! Please note sarcasm!) > > Sorry I went off on a tangent. Sorry if this is a little disorganized. There is just so much wrong with KMudd’s assumptions, that it is hard to know which one to refute first. > > \*\* You make some good points but why doesn’t someone start a scout type program on their own? Then they can make their own rules and have the leaders they want . AS long as they don’t use the name “Boy Scouts” they have every right to make their own scouting type group without the appoval of the BSA. ---
**Author:** ![kmudd20001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ce73a5/32.png) [@kmudd20001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmudd20001)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/178 "2001-05-05T03:19:46Z")
"Hey, KMudd! How’sa 'bout this idea: only Lesbians should be Boy Scout Leaders, and only Gay Men should be Girl Scout Leaders! That should cut the sexual molestation issue down just about as far as it can go, don’t you think? " I am for BSA and GSA making deciding their own leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/179 "2001-05-05T03:35:43Z")
Okay, **kmudd** , I’m going to try one more time, and I will try to use small words so you will be more likely to understand. Men who molest kids are sick in the head. They are not straight. They are not gay. They are child molesters. They do not walk around wearing signs that say “child molester”. They walk around in everyday life either pretending to be straight, or bi, or gay. Now, there’s been a percentage thrown around: 97%. That is the percentage of men who molest children who pretend to be straight. As the percentage of men who are straight is between 90% to 95%, this means that, if you meet a man who claims to be straight, he is **two to three times** as likely to molest kids than if he claimed to be gay. So, if the BSA wanted to reduce the number of scoutmasters who were child molesters, instead of disallowing openly gay men from serving, they should disallow openly straight men. Now, maybe that doesn’t sound right to you. Maybe your intuition says differently. But there are many things that are true in the world that are not intuitive. However, as **Tenar** notes, we have been tilting at a straw man. The BSA makes no claims that, by rejecting openly gay scoutmasters, they are reducing the number of molesters in their ranks. You brought that up when **KellyM** [called your bluff](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=69579&pagenumber=3#post1299622) regarding gays losing their jobs just because they were gay. I note you said nothing about the Cracker Barrel or Red Lobster cases. Now, care to answer for your own statements? You said, in your first post to this thread: > [@](#): > > The GLBT has the same rights as everyone else does. > The GLBT community doesn’t need special rights. What “special rights” do GLBT folks’ want? The “right” to be hired or fired based solely upon their ability to do the job? The “right” to publicly make a commitment to a monagamous relationship, and thereby recieve the same treatment as a married couple under the law? Care to provide an answer? A cite or two? You have yet to do so, despite all they side issues you have brought up. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059/180 "2001-05-05T03:46:04Z")
**Esprix** , **wring** and anyone else who’d care to join me can come to [the pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=69893) [sub]Sprix, darling, I know you’ve seen it. :)[/sub] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/homosexuality-for-or-against/64059.md?page=10)