Homosexuality, For or Against?

Kmudd, you owe me a new keyboard. This one is now soaked in coffee.

Oh, and, for the record, I recall a huge outcry from the gay community[sup]*[/sup] when Dahmer’s crimes were publicized. The feeling was that Dahmer got away with so many killings because the people he killed were gay, and so recieved fewer police hours investigating than had his victims been more socially acceptable.

Especially when the story came out about the victim who got away from Dahmer and, drugged, bleeding, and half-dressed, made it to a police officer. But when Dahmer got there, he persuaded the officer that it was just some perverted queer role-playing game or somesuch, not only was let go, but took the victim with him to be killed and dismembered like the others. If it had been a female victim, there is little doubt in my mind that Dahmer’s killing spree would have been stopped right there and then.

[sub][sup]*[/sup]Yeah, I know “gay community” is a misnomer, but can’t think of a better term at this time.[/sub]

No, they don’t. The plaintiff employee would have to prove that the employer discriminated against him or her for being gay; the defendant employer does not have to prove anything.

Cracker Barrel. Red Lobster. The Boy Scouts of America. There are more, of course. Now, you provide an example of an employer who practices “gay quotas” as a hedge against being sued for discrimination (and not as a political statement).

Only if your religious beliefs have something to do with weaponry.

See previous post. Or just read the damn newspaper, this happens on a regular basis all over the country.

Four words: don’t ask, don’t tell. An abstinence-practicing homosexual in the military forces will be forcibly discharged from duty if their preference is brought to the attention of their superiors. Specifically, shortly after Clinton was sworn in in 1993, a marine (I forget his name) at Camp Lejune came out of the closet on camera to a television reporter.

Despite Clinton’s election-year pledge to allow gays to serve in the military, and despite no evidence of him[sup]*[/sup] having sex with another man while in service, and having a documented record of exemplary service in the Corps, the marine was discharged shortly thereafter.

I believe there was a similar case involving a Navy officer, too, but my recollection of the details in that case is even shakier.

[sub]*The marine, not Clinton. Sheesh.[/sub]

[Off topic, cheap shot drive-by post]

In a very real sense, all of your rights are protected by the Second Amendment.

[/Off topic, cheap shot drive-by post]

KellyM, while I agree with you on the issue (largely because, in a perfect world, hate crime legislation would not be necessary, but our world is not yet perfect) this can’t be left unchallenged.

Given that the current aim (stated, at least) of the American penal system is rehabilitation and return to society, how can you justify this statement? Do you have anything to back it up?

I’d love to see what Amnesty International would do with mandatory life-without-parole for one class of murder convictions.

First, I challenge the credibility of the claim that any American penal system is rehabilitative; quite clearly, it is not. If our system was rehabilitative, there would not be a gradation of sentences for offenses; rather, every offense would lead to “incarceration until rehabilitation is complete”. And the death penalty is obviously inconsistent with a rehabilitative approach. Our penal system is constructed mainly to provide retribution and deterrence, with rehabilitation as a lesser-priority concern.

In my opinion, the purpose of a penal system should be to (a) protect society and (b) rehabilitate offenders. An offender should be incarcerated until such time as he or she is no longer a threat to society. An offender who is guaranteed to continue to be a threat to society, if released, can reasonably be confined for the entire duration of his or her life.

It is my opinion that individuals who engage in group-hate motivated murders are likely to be recidivist–it is unlikely that the attitudes and mentalities that led to them being hate murderers will be changed during incarceration. This is merely an impression and I am open to being proven wrong. I do not support nondiscretionary sentencing, so I do not believe that all hate criminals should be sentenced to life incarceration, but I believe that the option should be available and seriously considered in such cases. The sentencing and rehabilitation of criminals necessarily requires individual consideration of the offense, the offender, and the interests of society.

**

We already have mandatory life-without-parole for one class of felony convictees in many states (three strikes laws), and many states have enacted mandatory life-without-parole as the only alternative to death for first degree murder. I haven’t checked on Amnesty’s position on these matters lately, but I’m sure they’ve taken a stance.

I just have a few little thoughts regarding this topic. It’s one that will never really decided one way or the other. But here’s my $.02. First of all, the government, nor anyone else for that matter, should be allowed to tell you who you can and cannot love, as long as both parties are of legal age (and here I am thinking of Mary Ann Latourno, or however you spell it). Basically, my thought on homosexuality is as follows: I have enough problems without worrying who’s sleeping with who. That said, I think that the central arguement here is complete and udder crap, IMHO. IIRC, the Declaration of Independence says:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Let me elaborate. "ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the persuit of Happiness."

Nowhere in there does it hint, allege, imply, or suggest that this provison only applies if the person in question is heterosexual.

To be fair, the Bible DOES have the odd assorted quote about a man lying down with another man and so forth. But I wonder how different that is from the original text, as words are sometimes lost in translation. As well as stories growing from the mouth that tells to the ear that hears.

Bottom Line: Discrimination is wrong, in any sense of the word. The Founding Fathers recognized that Americans, as a people, are the sort to look around for someone to actively dislike. That is part of why the DOI reads as it does. No man, woman, hermaphrodite, etc., should have any rights that any other man does not.

I was wrong about the Amendment it is the first.

Do you think men should be allowed to be Girl Scout Leaders?
They are not be cause of the men may try and have sex with the girls . The same goes for the Boy Scouts,they should not have anyone who may prose a danger to the boys as Scout Leaders.Check for yourself how many boys have been molested by scout leaders.I know most gays wouldn’t molest anyone but some would .
Why don’t gay leaders start their own Gay Scout Club?

Where is the out cry about these victims?
Arkansas Supreme Court
Walls v. State
Case Number CR 99-1267: June 29, 2000
341arkissue12sc4
29 June 2000SUPREME COURT OF ARKANSAS
No. CR 99-1267
CHARLES A. “JACK” WALLS, III,
APPELLANT,
VS.
STATE OF ARKANSAS,
APPELLEE, Opinion Delivered
APPEAL FROM THE LONOKE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT,
NOS. CR 97-236 & CR 97-276,
HON. LANCE L. HANSHAW, JUDGE,
AFFIRMED.
ROBERT L. BROWN, Associate Justice
The appellant, Charles A. “Jack” Walls, III, appeals from a judgment of conviction for six counts of rape, following a resentencing in which he was sentenced to three life terms and three forty-year terms. The three life terms were fixed to run concurrently with each other, as were the three forty-year terms. The three forty-year terms, however, were to run consecutively to the life terms. Walls now appeals on grounds that the trial judge, Judge Lance Hanshaw, was biased at the resentencing hearing and should have recused or, alternatively, permitted him to withdraw his guilty and nolo contendere pleas. We hold that there was no abuse of discretion in Judge Hanshaw’s denial of the recusal motion or in his denial of Walls’s second motion to withdraw his guilty and nolo contendere pleas. We additionally conclude that based on the record before us, it appears that Judge Hanshaw has violated the Arkansas Code of Judicial Conduct. Accordingly, we direct the clerk of this court to forward a copy of this opinion to the Arkansas Judicial Discipline and Disability Commission for action.
This is the second appeal we have had on Walls’s sentencing. In Walls v. State, 336 Ark. 490, 986 S.W.2d 397 (1999) (Walls I), which was handed down by this court on March 4, 1999, we held that Judge Hanshaw had abused his discretion when he allowed testimony about the Stocks murders to be introduced as part of victim-impact evidence and then stated at sentencing that he held Walls responsible for those murders when he set Walls’s sentence. We, accordingly, reversed the sentences and remanded the case to the trial judge for resentencing. It is the subsequent resentencing that is at issue in this appeal.
The chronology of events is important to our resolution of this matter. On January 22, 1998, Judge Hanshaw conducted a sentencing hearing following Walls’s plea of guilty to five counts of rape and a plea of nolo contendere to one count of rape. Walls had been a boy scout leader, and the rapes were perpetrated against boy scouts under his care. On February 4, 1998, Judge Hanshaw sentenced Walls to four life terms and two forty-year terms, with all sentences to run consecutively.
On the day of the sentencing, Judge Hanshaw made statements to reporters from two television stations. Channel 7, the ABC affiliate in Little Rock, reported that JudgeHanshaw stated he had sent to prison more than half a dozen young men who were victimized by Walls. That same day, according to Channel 11, the CBS affiliate in Little Rock, Judge Hanshaw met with the victims of the rapes and the victims’s families and gave them a book, The Wounded Heart: Hope for Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse.
The sentences meted out by Judge Hanshaw on February 4, 1998, were appealed to this court. On March 4, 1999, this court handed down Walls I in which we reversed the sentences and remanded the case for resentencing, as already discussed. On March 4, 1999, Judge Hanshaw told a reporter for Channel 4, the NBC affiliate in Little Rock, that he did not base Walls’s sentence on the Stocks murders and that the Stocks murders had nothing to do with the sentence. Also on that date, Judge Hanshaw told a Channel 11 reporter that the Walls sentences were within the parameters of the sentencing guidelines. A petition for rehearing was filed by the State, and it was denied by this court on April 15, 1999.
After we remanded this case to Judge Hanshaw, Walls filed several motions. On June 4, 1999, Walls moved for Judge Hanshaw to recuse because (1) he was tainted by the prejudicial evidence introduced at the first sentencing hearing, (2) he made public comments to the media exhibiting prejudice, and (3) he held an improper ex parte meeting with the victims and their families and gave them a book. Wallsasserted that Judge Hanshaw had violated the Arkansas Code of Judicial Conduct and could not be fair at resentencing. He stated that any resentencing would be “politically motivated.”
Also on June 4, 1999, Walls moved to withdraw his pleas of guilty and nolo contendere under Ark. R. Crim. P. 26.1(a), on grounds that Judge Hanshaw was biased and that the resentencing would constitute a manifest injustice. On June 9, 1999, Judge Hanshaw declined to recuse and denied the motion for withdrawal of the guilty and nolo contendere pleas. Walls renewed the motions and asked for a hearing to present evidence, including videotapes depicting his public comments to the television stations and the ex parte meeting. That motion was denied on June 21, 1999. On June 22, 1999, Walls petitioned this court for a writ of prohibition to halt the resentencing on grounds that Judge Hanshaw was biased. We denied the petition without prejudice to raise the issue in a direct appeal.
On June 23, 1999, Judge Hanshaw conducted a resentencing hearing. Only two witnesses testified: Karen Knox, the mother of one victim, and Joy Cook, who worked for the prosecutor’s office and who testified about Judge Hanshaw’s meeting with the victims and their families on January 22, 1998, and the gift of the book, The Wounded Heart. Following the hearing, Judge Hanshaw sentenced Walls to three life terms and three forty-year terms. After his pronouncement of sentence, JudgeHanshaw permitted Walls to proffer into evidence the videotapes of the judge’s comments to television reporters.
Walls’s central issue on appeal is that Judge Hanshaw erred in failing to recuse from this case prior to the second sentencing hearing. Walls concentrates on the errors committed by the judge at the first sentencing hearing, where prejudicial testimony was permitted into evidence. He further emphasizes the public comments made by the judge to the news media as well as the ex parte meeting with the victims and their families and the gift of the book. Walls points to the Arkansas Code of Judicial Conduct and specifically to three canons:
Canon 1 — A judge shall uphold the integrity and independence of the judiciary.
Canon 2 — A judge shall avoid impropriety and the appearance of impropriety in all of the judge’s activities.
Canon 3 — A judge shall perform the duties of the judicial office impartially and diligently.
Under the rubric of Canon 3, Walls urges that Judge Hanshaw violated (1) subsection B(7) by initiating ex parte communications with the victims and their families following the first sentencing on February 4, 1998, without the presence of defense counsel, and (2) subsection B(9) by publicly commenting on a pending proceeding on both February 4, 1998, and March 4, 1999, when the comments might reasonably beexpected to affect the outcome of the proceeding or affect its fairness. We agree, as already stated, that based on what we have before us, there appear to be violations of the Judicial Code.
That leaves us with the question of whether a violation of the ethical rules set out in the Judicial Code manifests or equates to bias and, thus, ineligibility to preside over the Walls resentencing. We conclude that Judge Hanshaw’s apparent ethical lapses do not decide the bias issue. As an initial matter, this court has been resolute in holding that reversal and remand due to error by the trial judge do not automatically require recusal of the trial judge who erred. See, e.g., Wilson v. Neal, 341 Ark. ___, 16 S.W.3d 228 (May 11, 2000). A judge has a duty to sit on a case unless there is a valid reason to disqualify. Carton v. Missouri Pac. R.R., 315 Ark. 5, 865 S.W.2d 635 (1993). In addition, this court does not presume bias on the part of a trial judge but rather presumes impartiality. Wilson v. Neal, supra; Black v. Van Steenwyk, 333 Ark. 629, 970 S.W.2d 280 (1998); Skokos v. Skokos, 332 Ark. 520, 968 S.W.2d 26 (1998). The decision to recuse lies within the discretion of the judge, and to decide whether there has been an abuse of discretion, we review the record to see if prejudice or bias was exhibited. Black v. Van Steenwyk, supra; Dolphin v. Wilson, 328 Ark. 1, 942 S.W.2d 815 (1997); Reel v. State, 318 Ark. 565, 886 S.W.2d 615(1994).
We discern no bias on the part of Judge Hanshaw in his resentencing so as to warrant a third sentencing. We address the March 4, 1999, statements first. Judge Hanshaw’s comments that he was not influenced by the Stocks murders and that the terms fixed were within the sentencing guidelines, while inappropriate and ethically suspect under the Judicial Code, fall more into the category of disagreement with this court’s decision rather than bias. But in addition to that, we glean from the record no suggestion of prejudice on the part of Judge Hanshaw towards Walls after Walls I. On the contrary, at the resentencing hearing, Judge Hanshaw permitted counsel for Walls to proffer videotapes of the televised newscasts for the record, although the proffer was not timely and occurred after sentencing. He further reduced the sentence on one count from that handed down at the first sentencing hearing and ran some of the sentences concurrently. The new sentences were within the statutory limits.
We turn then to the statements made by Judge Hanshaw during the first Walls sentencing on February 4, 1998, and the public comments and ex parte meeting that same day. Canon 3E(1) does provide that a judge shall disqualify himself “in a proceeding in which the judge’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned . . . .” However, we have held that recusal is a matter that is discretionary with the trialjudge, and we will not reverse unless the trial judge abuses that discretion. Black v. Van Steenwyk, supra; Dolphin v. Wilson, supra; Reel v. State, supra. Plus, as already cited, we do not presume prejudice on the part of the trial judge. Wilson v. Neal, supra. On the contrary, we presume that the trial judge is impartial. Id. In the instant case, mere suspicion or conjecture that the judge’s heart and mind were so tainted by events that occurred more than a year earlier that he could not view the matter afresh on remand is not enough. We take as a given that a judge is able to preside over a matter on remand with a clean slate, absent proof or some indication to the contrary. The record in this matter simply does not support Walls’s contention that Judge Hanshaw was biased towards him at the resentencing. For all of these reasons, we hold that the trial judge did not abuse his discretion in declining to recuse in this matter.
There are two other issues raised by Walls for reversal. The first is that Judge Hanshaw’s failure to recuse for all the reasons already stated violated his due process rights. Walls, however, failed to obtain a ruling on this point from the trial judge and, thus, has waived the issue for purposes of appeal. Newman v. State, 327 Ark. 339, 939 S.W.2d 811 (1997). Furthermore, Walls cites us to no authority in support of his constitutional argument. He simply makes the bald statement that his due process rights have been violated. That conclusory statement is not enough, and this court will not develop the constitutional issue for him. Ayers v. State, 334 Ark. 258, 975 S.W.2d 88 (1998).
Walls finally contends that he should be able to withdraw his guilty and nolo contendere pleas due to bias on Judge Hanshaw’s part, because that equates to manifest injustice under Ark. R. Crim. P. 26(a)(1). Again, Walls presents this court with no convincing authority to support the contention that Judge Hanshaw abused his discretion in disallowing a withdrawal of his pleas. Ayers v. State, supra. And because we hold that there was no proof of bias so as to warrant recusal, Walls’s argument of manifest injustice is substantially undercut.
The record has been reviewed in his case for other reversible error pursuant to Ark. Sup. Ct. R. 4-3(h), and none has been found.
Affirmed.
Date Received: June 29, 2000

I do believe that kmudd20001 is hoping (wrong again) that no one will notice that he doesn’t respond directly to the challenge. He says ‘show me evidence gays are screened out of jobs’, the evidence is presented, along with yet another request that he back up his/her claims.

we noticed. try again, please.

But doesent that simply mean that men shouldn’t lead these troops? Women molest less than men, therefore all 'scout type things should go to women. After all, theres no other reason to have scout leaders than molestation.

97% of child molesters are straight men. Most men who have sex with young boys do not identify as gay. There is absolutely no foundation to the belief that gay men are more likely to molest children. If anything, homosexuality is a negative predictor of tendency to molest (do the math).

Your comments suggest that you believe that homosexuals are dangerous to children. Could you clarify this? Do you, in fact, believe that homosexuals are dangerous to children? Why or why not?

Also, I am still waiting for you to provide an example of a business which has established a “gay quota” for the purpose of minimizing legal exposure.

Oh, and for the record, I have no problem with a male Girl Scout troop leader. We allow women to be Cub Scout den mothers, after all.

And as to “gay scout club”: segregrated facilities are inherently inequal.

kmudd2001: What evidence is there that Mr. Walls is a homosexual? I don’t question the court’s finding that he molested Boy Scouts, but I see nothing in what you posted that leads me to conclude that he’s gay.

I have a solution: Henceforth, only castrated men will be eligible to serve as Scout leaders.

{sigh} Must every discussion about human sexuality devolve into a defense for basic human rights? (Then again, I’m waiting patiently for this to be shipped off to The Pit…)

All heterosexuals are child molesters - got it.

All homosexuals are child molesters - check.

Obviously you think all would, since none, in your opinion, should be allowed to be scout leaders. Unless, of course, you mean we should only deny homosexuals from being scout leaders on the off chance they might be child molesters, but guess what, Skippy? 98% of all child molestations are committed by heterosexuals. (I’ll leave it up to someone to link to an actual cite, 'cause I don’t have the time at the moment.) So, if the “off chance” is your reasoning, no heterosexual should ever be allowed to be a scout leader. Thank you for arguing our side of the argument. Perhaps a quick checking of facts might help you seem a little less uneducated?

Let’s all say it together, folks, since some people need reminding: Homosexuality and pedophilia are two unrelated subjects. :rolleyes:

Thankfully, there are, indeed, organizations that are more open than the BSA; the question before the Supreme Court, however, was whether or not the Boy Scouts were considered a public organization, which would then determine how inclusive they were required to be by law (it was ruled they were, indeed, a private organization).

Esprix

After an admittedly very quick search I can’t find any sort of gender requiremet for Girl Scout Leaders. In fact, this is the only thing I could find - which invites both men and women to volunteer with GSA. Seeing so much about girl scouting is that women (and future women) are smart, strong, capable, etc… I would find it odd if all of a troops leaders were men. But not for the reasons you stated.

This shows what this girl scout council wants
Leaders wanted
The Suncoast Girl Scout Council is looking for women to volunteer as Girl Scout leaders and co-leaders. The organization also welcomes male volunteers for other positions. For information, call (800) 881-4475 or (813) 281-4475.
this is from
http://www.sptimes.com/News/073100/NorthPinellas/Girl_Scouts_thwarted_.shtml

Any comment on the fact that the claim that barring homosexuals from Boy Scouts is necessary to prevent molestation is a load of horseshit?

Any citation of any business ever forced against its will to accept a homosexual?

Any verification on the ludicrous claim that homosexual men are more likely to be killed by other homosexual men than by heterosexual men?

In short, are you planning on either putting up or shutting up in the near future? There is no other option.

Here are some links of boy scouts molested and raped by scout leaders.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/stories/news-19991109-122319.html

http://www.news-star.com/stories/100497/new_bs.html

http://www.king5.com/localnews/storydetail.html?StoryID=3281
http://www.massnews.com/marboyrape.htm

http://www.ohio.com/communities/akron/moreabout/2001/January/09/docs/002532.htm
http://www.llano.net/baptist/pbc009.htm#Former
http://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/fastfacts/BoyScoutsIssue.pdf